Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

[Moving Target]

I don't understand why outboard motors cost so much. Why can you buy a brand new GSXR 1000 motorcycle witch is about as high performance/tech you can get in a cycle, for $10,000 dollars, but a 115 4stroke outbard will cost about the same. I just got a quote on a '03 150hp Mercury carb model and it was near $9,000. Come on, there is WAY more manufacturing cost and tech cost in a new GSXR than a outboard motor. Seams to me a 115 4smoke should cost about 5 or 6 grand, not 9 or 12!<br /><br />Sorry, just venting. But my god, it almost seams that it's cheaper to buy a whole new boat and motor than to just buy a new motor for your boat.

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

Just a thought - try driving your GSXR 1000 through salt water for ten or twenty years and ask the question again.

 

[chiques]

Re: Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

or try to go to the places i can go with my boat, or maybe you should try to spend your day fishing in your gsxr 1000 or whatever....

 

[Moving Target]

Re: Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

Try driving a outboard across the desert for 10 yrs. (I'm in fresh water by the way)<br /><br />I'm just saying they seam a little over priced. Although a local marina just called me back, the have a new in the box '02 Merc 125 card that they will let go for $6,400 with Control box. That seems more like it. Maybe the other marina is a little over-priced

 

[Bradster941]

Re: Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

If you check the numbers, I bet more motorcycles are produced each year than outboards.<br />With volume production, comes lower cost.<br />With more competition also comes lower cost.<br /> I agree it is expensive, and wish your numbers were reality.

 

[jim dozier]

Re: Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

Paul is right. Take your GSRX or whatever high tech bike, replace all fasteners with nickel alloy stainless, redesign it so its waterproof, sparkfree, and capable of pulling a semi-trailer, and produce about 1/4 of the total number of products and do the math, voila!, the price of an outboard.

 

[Moving Target]

Re: Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

You two are kind of j*cka**'s (PM and chiques)<br /><br />Of coures I can't take a bike fishing! Bright reply!<br /><br />Why do IO's no cost LESS than OB's then. I can fish with them and run them is saltwater (and probably last longer)!<br /><br />You guys must sell outboards or something.<br /><br />Just asking a question. The next two guys had worth while replies at least!

 

[chiques]

Re: Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

I agree with badster, i am pretty sure that the motorcycle market is bigger than the outboard market, and maybe the offer and demand laws works just fine to your questions about prices, besides we the boat about guys love to be out there with out there with my WHOLE family, just sailing or take them to beaches, maybe we are just different and for that feeling of being out there we pay.

 

[JB]

Re: Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

Not too familiar with bikes, Target.<br /><br />Does your bike have a 2 liter, twin cam, variable timing multivalve, computer controlled, EFI engine on it? Does it have to meet EPA or CA emissions specs?<br /><br />Outboard engines are very high tech these days, and very expensive. If Brand Y could afford to underprice Brand Z you can bet your bippy they would.

 

[chumbucket]

Re: Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

Can you get green head fly's, Have your hand stink after cutting bait,have the salt water fog up your eye glasses ???????/ Where can you beat It????????

 

[FlyBoyMark]

Re: Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

We have talked about this quite a bit in other post. I went to a cost of living index and found most all motors 40 Hp and down with 20% off list price are rite inline with prices of about 25 years ago. Over 40 Hp they DO become bloated in price. They are selling for about 30% more than they should. As far as stainless hardware goes, this only adds about 5 bucks to the cost of the outboard. The only UNUSUAL alloy in an outboard, like Mercury, is the castings. The volume of outboard aluminum alloy used by manufactures is far greater THAN the cost of a custom one time run alloy at the foundry which amounts to a considerable discount in production cost. In additon, just about every outboard in every line uses parts from other manufactures and from within their own lines. The outboard manufactures seem to guard the production numbers very tightly for some reason. Most outboards that once are developed in the line up of models usually does'nt change for several years either. This is the opposite of any other similar type of engine or transportation manufacturer. They tend to change things annually. I can't blame the distributor or the dealer, I look to the manufacturer and what their P&L sheets look like in detail(who gets paid what...)

 

[Moving Target]

Re: Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

JB the '03 GSXR 1000 is a 1 liter 32-bit ECM EFI DOHC 16v motor producing 155 REAR WHEEL HP. The Yamaha R1 is a 5 valve per cylinder 4 stroke inline 4 with Titanium Valves. Two motor that are more high tech than OB IMO. With lots of Titanium and Carbon fiber parts and they cost way more than ss! The brakes and suspension are amazing high tech peices also. Not just a motor. They also have a maybe 3 to 4 yr life span before the a mostly if not completly redisigned. Outboards don't seem to change much. Two stroke's have been banded by the DOT (in US) since the mid '80's, not so in the water, so witch regulations are tighter in your opinion?<br /><br />And I'm not here bragging up bike's. I just don't see the justification of the OB price.<br /><br />I don't think there is that many more bike than outboards sold. And outboards seem to share alot of parts in there lines. Merc and Yamaha share alot of parts. Bikes us basialy completly diff motors in every bike (the gxsr 600, 750 and 1000 do share alot).<br /><br />But it's not even comparing them to bikes.<br /><br />And what about PWC'c? You can by a 3 seater (use the 3 seater for the example because I can "take the wife and kid" beacuse someone thinks that justified the price) for about $5 to $8 grand depending on motor size. And these are very brand competitve also. They go threw redesigning faster than outboards to. The Honda is even a SuperCharged 4 stroke. Pretty high tech IMO.<br /><br />By the way, I love outboards. Would not want anything different (in a boat), just don't get why the cost so much.

 

[ledgefinder]

Re: Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

Modern sport bikes are pretty amazing pieces of technology (and I don't include those 2-wheeled lawn tractors they sell from Milwaukee - those things come with bagger attachments yet?). The price/performance ratio is astounding & we should realize how blessed we are to be living through this era. Same for the motocrossers.<br /><br />The main difference marine gear is quality, & is isn't something that hits you right away like a high-tech bike. Anything near salt water corrodes immediately - only surgical implants have a tougher enviroment. Marine hardware in general (e.g., a winch) is expensive & they get their price because the cheaper stuff falls apart immediately (see "Cruise & Carry"). <br /><br />I'm unhappy to see OMC going down, because (overlooking Ficht) I think they made the best quality motors. Certainly the easiest to work on. Since I've already insulted HD fans, I may as well go ahead & say Yamahas & Hondas aren't handling the salt as well as they years go by, nice-running motors though they may be.

 

[Moving Target]

Re: Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

ledgefinder, your right about HD. I guess I should not complain, by HD pricing a 150 (well I know they can't make a motor with that much HP but) would cost about $29,000 for a carbed twin and blow oil into the water.

 

[jarob]

Re: Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

Hi moving target, I totally agree with your comments on the cost of outboards and can't believe that people are trying to verify the rip off prices that are charged .

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

Bradster941 is on the right track. The answer is very simple and it has nothing to do with technology, materials of construction, etc. It's a function of volume, plain and simple. If you look at auto sales in the US, it's around 15 million units for all manufacturers per year. Outboard sales are less than 100,000 to 200,000. And that's for all vendors. A manufacturer can get much different pricing on stuff like pistons when millions are bought at a pop. Same is true for castings and any other buyout materials which go in to the finished product. I'm sure motorcycle sales in the US are orders of magnitude greater than outboard sales.<br /><br />Huge volumes, like the auto industry sees, can support massive investments in automation and robotics, which are not cost effective for the OB industry. The thing which compunds the volume issue is the volume in a specific model. With the number of models the major mfgrs offer, I'm sure their volume in some models is only a few thousand a year. You get the idea.<br /><br />This is exactly why exotic cars like Aston Martin cost over $250K ... very low volume (i.e. <2500/yr).

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

Sorry Moving Target, I ment corrosion resistance (al and stainless materials). I guess my post does come across as snarky is you take it that way: I ought to have been more clear.<br />BTW, (just a small point) 8 and 16 bit MCU's (the heart of an ECM) are starting to get a little rare. The venerable ones are still being made but would not be considered for a new ECM design.<br />EDIT: I forgot to mention, I'm suprised we haven't seen much plastic starting to be used for less expensive outboards. Surely nowadays many of those castings could be replaced with injection molded plastic. They're starting to make intake manifolds out of it afterall...

 

[Moving Target]

Re: Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

In 2002 about 850,000 motorcycles where sold in the us. This includes HD, Honda, Yamah, Suzuki, Kawasaki, KTM, Aprilia, Ducati, BMW, MotoGuzzi, Triumph, Victory (Polaris) and a hand full of others. Now take in account that this also includes Street Bike, Mopeds/Scooters, Dirt Bikes and ATV's. Also take into consideration that most of the bikes in each segment share little common parts (except wheel, brakes, turn signals ect). Motors are almost 1 of a kind for each bike. A Suzuki GSXR shares few if any motor parts with say a SV. A Kawaski Vulcan shares few if any motor parts with a ZX6. A Honda CR250 shares few if any motor parts with a XL250. Let alone the frames and suspension are almost completey diff for all of them. An R&D is very expensive. And most of these Models change very often.<br /><br />No lets look at outboards. 200,000 from Merc, Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, Evin/John and a couple others. Ok Merc and Yam share most of the powerheads. I believe the Merc 40-70 power head and lower unit is used my Yamaha. And the 90 and 115 Yamaha power head is used by Merc. The Evinrude (and Johnson?) are Repainted and Badged Suzuki's. And look at the motors. MANY HP use almost the exact same motor AND lower unit. The same block, pistons, crank, carbs ect. The Diff HP rating come from state of tune. Like diff jetting and exhaust. Diff Ignition and EFI maps and RMP limits. I mean realy a 70 HP Merc costs the no more to manufacture than the 40. <br /><br />A huge amount of parts are shared in outboards. So I don't think it's all about quanities. They are over priced! Sorry, but they are.

 

[Moving Target]

Re: Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

And outboard motor sales have been near if not over 300,000 units annualy, almost 350,000 in 2000.<br /><br /> NMMA-Facts

 

[Lou C]

Re: Why do outboards cost so much?$$$$$

I think like others have said it is the production volume thing. I for one cannot yet justtify the cost of a new OB, which is why I still have my i/o. Now I know many dislike i/os, and they are more maintenance to keep going, but when you can get a whole power package new (4.3/alpha 1) for like half the price of a similar power OB, you have to wonder--