Some advice please......

[lffsam]

Re: Some advice please......

I doubt that you actually took your drive up to 7 bar and 14.5 bar. Each bar is equal to 14.7 PSI... You should test your drive to 15 PSIG. (about 1 bar above atmospheric). (14.5 bar is equal to 213 PSI..... way too much!)

Also... you can test each half independently.... only need to plug the oil passage where the halves join. The point where the drive shaft enters the upper has its own oil seals (these oil seals actually ride on the driven gear shaft in the upper half of the drive..... it needs to hold pressure!). If you tried to pressure test the upper drive and had leakage there, you have a problem with that seal and by your saying that you had oil leakage at that point, leads me to believe there may still be a potential problem there.

The old contaminated oil should have all drained out..... If you really want to, you can fill the drive with new gear oil, then drain it out again, but I see no need for that.
KB

Oooooppppppsss, thats what you get by living in a metric country! My error, I meant to say PSI not Bar, thanks for pointing this out, I have corrected the post.

I am confused regarding the pressure testing of the two halves. There is a seal on the driveshaft from the raw waterpump, just inside the upper housing. I cannot see how the drive would seal if the driveshaft was not in the seal? I have looked section 3a page 39 service manual 14, which shows two seals under the upper driven gear assembly. Are these the seals you fear may be damaged? How would the drive hold pressure for 12 hours at a time if that were the case?

 

[ktbarrentine]

Re: Some advice please......

I have recently come to the realization that the GenII has to be fully assembled to test that dual seal setup. It is an interesting design change from the older models that were set up so that pressure testing the upper could be done independent of the lower.

You can, however, do a prelim pressure test on the lower half if you plug the oil passage.

I don't know how to explain it any better... and I know Don S or Achris can, and also provide a clearer cross section drawing showing the orientation of the seals (And the design changes that occurred at 2005).

 

[lffsam]

Re: Some advice please......

Many thanks KT.....I will do some research in to resealing the upper unit............the saga continues...........will I ever get out there on the water and have some FUN................

 

[ktbarrentine]

Re: Some advice please......

Many thanks KT.....I will do some research in to resealing the upper unit............the saga continues...........will I ever get out there on the water and have some FUN................

Yep! Got to get out on the water! Boats are supposed to be on the water, not in the shop!

I am hoping the ohters will chime in on the discussion of "those two seals" in the bottom of the upper half of the drive (there is a ton more experinece here than I have).

It is interesting that Merc made some subtle but seemingly significant design changes to the Alpha drive when the introduced the Gen II; They kept that two-seal aspect in that part of the drive, but rearranged things a bit (like, now you cant change out the lower of the two seals without tearing apart the upper drive, and took away the O-ring on the vertical shaft). But in the end, they seem to have a good reason for the two seals.

Now, lets summarize where you are at (if I can follow the thread) and see what else needs to be (or should be) done to finish up.
1. You had water in the bellows (what was your indication of that? Just found on routine drive removal?)
2. You changed out the drive bellows, gimbal bearing and impeller
3. You broke the oil reservoir bulkhead fitting on the transom (did you get that replaced?)
4. You found water in the drive oil.
5. You did not (as far as I can tell) change out any seals on the drive (even after finding water in the drive that is/was postulated to be caused by the water in the bellows).
6. You noticed gear-oil leakage at the vertical shaft seals area at the bottom of the upper drive half during disassembly (and questioned if that should be considered a problem - is that resolved yet?).
7. You pressure tested the drive and the "whole" drive passed.
8. You still are concerned about remnants of water contaminated oil in the drive. (your original post asked the question about "flushing" the drive, and that seems to have still not be answered to satisfaction).
9. Are you planning on checking the alignment of the engine before drive re-install? (should always be done on a drive reinstall, but more so now because you have installed a new gimbal bearing...)

Is that about where we are at today? or anything else need to be added?

 

[lffsam]

Re: Some advice please......

After looking at the manuals ( again !), and reading lots of posts, I really wish that Merc had left things alone, as you have said, and made the lower seal accessible without having to tear the drive down. I don't have the tools to do that or the money to buy them at the moment. Most of the shops are located on the coast here in France, which is a 6 hour drive in any direction. I am bang in the center.

So, yes you have just about summed my position up at the moment.

1. Water in the outdrive oil, traces ( water marks, no water ) in the UJ bellows, but no oil, water intrusion in to the boat. Could not find evidence of damage to UJ bellows, but the shift cable bellow came apart in my hand when removing it so I don't know for sure if that was the culprit for water ingress to the boat.

2. Have changed all bellows, water hose, and gimbal bearing.

3. Broke through bulkhead oil connection removing drive oil line, and managed to melt plastic through bulkhead water tube trying to get the water hose of ( with a hot air gun, bad idea ). Should have removed both from interior of boat and removed pipes later, you learn from experience. Both now replaced.

4. Yes

5. I have not replaced any seals in the outdrive except the ones associated with the raw water pump. I have noticed since that I am getting water from the two weep holes at the rear of the drive when the engine is running on muffs. I dont recall this happening before. There is no water when the muffs are pressurised and the engine is not running, but a steady trickle when the engine is running. I have also changed the engine circulation pump, as that was weeping from the front seal. Is the water from the weep holes normal ( due to the higher pressure with the new impeller and circulation pump, or have I done something wrong with the impeller install. I followed the manual and Don S guide I found here ( thanks Don ).

6. The gear oil above the vertical shaft is not resolved and is my outstanding problem. I pressure tested the whole drive as I could not make the upper half seal. Air came straight out of the area in the upper where the vertical input shaft goes. With the drive assembled it held both the low and high pressure tests overnight.

7. I pressure tested the whole drive as I could not make the upper half seal. Air came straight out of the area in the upper where the vertical input shaft goes. With the drive assembled it held both the low and high pressure tests overnight.

8. After much more reading and your input I have decided to just refill the drive oil and check it after the first outing. I have taken off the drive lube reservoir and line and cleaned it thoroughly. I also let the drive drain overnight this time, which I did not last time.

9. The boat and outdrive are now reasembled. I have checked the engine alignment and I believe it to be **** on. I bought the multi tool from the USA and had it shipped when I did the bellows and gimbal.

The boat has not been in the water since last season ( October ). My plan is to launch her this weekend, and recover after an hour or so and check the outdrive oil and pull the drive to check the bellows are dry. IF all is well I plan to run the boat this season, with regular checks on the outdrive oil. I will send the upper away to be resealed in the winter if I cannot source the tools to do the job myself. This would be a purely cost related decision, as I always perform my own maintence ( cars, motorcycles, tractor, JCB ) and have never taken any of my vehicles to the shop. I have had to pay for services such as pressing bearings, making hose lines and such, but have never said "please fix this". I have a good selection of mechanics tools, but outdrives are so specialised, I am wondering if its worth investing in the tools to service the innards. I have already bought the tools to do basic drive servicing.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Unless the feedback I get says NO, DO NOT LAUNCH THE BOAT, I will report back after the weekend.

 

[ktbarrentine]

Re: Some advice please......

6. The gear oil above the vertical shaft is not resolved and is my outstanding problem. I pressure tested the whole drive as I could not make the upper half seal. Air came straight out of the area in the upper where the vertical input shaft goes. With the drive assembled it held both the low and high pressure tests overnight.

For GenII that is apparently normal and is OK....(sat pressure test with the drive assembled).

Interestingly enough, the design was radically changed when they went to GenII, so that the dual seals now both ride on the vertical shaft and therefore provide gearlube to the spline area. When you split the drives, you will get some remnant gear oil from that area, and in no way would it pass a pressure test without the shaft (or some other plug) installed. So the drive has to be assembled to do the final pressure test (I am not so sure I like that design change, but I guess it works ok).

Hope you were able to launch and have a great time!

 

[lffsam]

Re: Some advice please......

Thats great news! I was not looking forward to the drive failing because of those seals! I have not launched her yet because of the bad weather this weekend, but am hoping to do so tomorrow. Thanks for the heads up....

 

[lffsam]

Re: Some advice please......

Just to update the post.....................success!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have launched and recovered the boat after a few hours. The outdrive oil is free of water, no water in the belows, and no water in the boat.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread and helped with my problems.