Delco EST to Pertronix?

[RedRock2020]

Troubleshooting stall at idle for sterndrive Mercruiser 3.0 s/n 0w3055xx. It has the Delco EST. ('05 Bayliner 185 bowrider).
Boat idles fine and then will shut off randomly. Would normally start up and last 2 times out it would drive fine for a half hour at least and then stall only under idle and then super hard time starting twice. The other stalls hard start but it would start.
-Last time I had trouble starting I started to open the carb at the fuel inlet and heard what sounded like it sucking fuel as soon as I broke the seal and then I got fuel (I thought maybe no fuel to carb, loosened the fitting at outlet on fuel pump and fuel was definitely under pressure on that side). Thinking possible closed float, rebuilt the carb last year. Just installed a brass float today and have not tested.

Most of the idle stalls it restarts without issue. The stall is weird in that it is a clean shutoff without much if any stutter. Boat runs great at low-mid-high throttle. Boat can idle for 30 seconds to 20 minutes and then stall or idle for a half hour and not stall. Seems to only happen when engine is warmed up.

- Delco EST, it appears the that one of the "points" might be grazing the pole piece and slightly uneven. I did replace the rotor and distributor cap and no change.

I ordered a Peltronix coil and ignition. I thought it would be easy to install per some of the other posts but I guess they meant conversions from a points ignition. I don't see how the pole piece and the coil come off so I can install the Peltronix.

I would appreciate some advice on how to proceed. The distributor shaft appears to be in great shape. Should I scrap the Delco EST and go with Pertronix or not? Advice on how to fix would be great. Spending entirely too much time in my boat in the garage and not on the water.

Background, last year same issue and some lag throttle issues (just bought the boat 2 years ago and it didn't work right from when I bought it except the test drive). Took to mechanic he corrected timing and not sure what else, not much though and no parts installed other than filters and fluids. Mechanic said it runs great. Ran great for about 3 hours of engine time. I just changed the anti-siphon valve as well. When I got it from the mechanic it fired right up and now it takes 10 seconds with throttle to start. It's all within 2 boat outings.

 

[Rick Stephens]

EST is great stuff, better than Pertronix. Besides, you are right, Pertronix replaces point system, no points with Delco.

Read up about how shift interrupts work in the Adults Only Section. Then check to make sure it is working.

And sounds like you need to test your float repair.

Rick

 

[achris]

Hello RedRock2020 , :welcome: aboard.

As you using the PROPER Merc manual?

Petronix is a points replacement, and as such has no advance. Stay with the EST and fix it. The manual has a full diagnostics procedure.

Chris.....

 

[havoc_squad]

Hello RedRock2020 , :welcome: aboard.

As you using the PROPER Merc manual?

Petronix is a points replacement, and as such has no advance. Stay with the EST and fix it. The manual has a full diagnostics procedure.

Chris.....

+1. Delco EST troubleshooting ain't rocket science and is far better than the old points and condenser system. Buying Pertronix kit is being a parts changer, it's not diagnosing.

If you can't fully diagnose a problem accurately, you can't fix it.

One could probably buy a nice late model low mileage compact car for the amount of money beginning boat do it yourselfers here in iBoats waste in being a "parts changer" of unused new parts. Buying first, diagnosing second, facepalming third. :facepalm:

The Mercruiser manual #26 outlines the clear diagnostic steps for doing this, you can look at the steps on http://boatinfo.no for free with a flash capable web browser.

It's so easy to follow, even a computer programmer armed with a multi-meter like myself can do it. (We are well known in our field to make simple stuff needlessly complicated.)


Return that Pertronix gear as soon as you can before your return window is gone.

 

[achris]

.... (We are well known in our field to make simple stuff needlessly complicated.)....

Or creating loops that can't be exited.

Chris.....

x=5
Do
x=x+1
Loop while (x<4)

 

[havoc_squad]

Or creating loops that can't be exited.

Chris.....

x=5
Do
x=x+1
Loop while (x<4)

Ah, going in circles for a good while... Me, Bill Murray, and quite a few others know that place more well than we would care to admit. (Movie reference).

 

[achris]

Ah, going in circles for a good while... Me, Bill Murray, and quite a few others know that place more well than we would care to admit. (Movie reference).

Groundhog Day? (If so, one of my favourites! )

 

[havoc_squad]

Groundhog Day? (If so, one of my favourites! )

Yes, stating the name would almost be like me playing Captain obvious because of how well it's known.

Even in the diverse world we live in today.

 

[Scott Danforth]

first, welcome aboard

next, pertronix is at best, a slightly better version of a switch than mechanical points

the delco voyager is decades better

your issues are most likely not electrical or ignition related. most likely your lower shift cable needs adjustment or replacing and your fuel system needs to be looked at.

 

[RedRock2020]

Thanks for the help everyone!

The pickup coil is bad. Doesn't hold constant ohms (820 constant and moves +/-10 or so when moved around) and will drop out momentarily when the cabling is moved around.

The ignition coil test instructions seem to reference a diagram not in the manual? Am I correct in assuming the wiring harness from the coil to the distributor is the .4 ohms (12 volt terminal b and terminal c in test isntructions)? If so I have a reading of 7 ohms (multi meter is auto sensing so I think may be 0.7 ohms which I assume is still out of spec.

My thought process here is to replace the pickup coil, the ignition coil, time the engine and see if that fixes it. Let me know if there is anything else I should do while I have the distributor out of the engine.

I think I may have 2 issues, the float which weighed 12 grams instead of 9 which I am pretty confidant it was stuck at least once (I just replaced with brass and new spring. etc. that sits inside of float assembly) and a failing pickup coil with possible ignition coil.

Pertronix is getting returned.

 

[RedRock2020]

first, welcome aboard

next, pertronix is at best, a slightly better version of a switch than mechanical points

the delco voyager is decades better

your issues are most likely not electrical or ignition related. most likely your lower shift cable needs adjustment or replacing and your fuel system needs to be looked at.

Scott, I have not had a chance to look into the lower shift cable. The stalling will happen in neutral was well as in gear. Since it does in and out of gear should I still take a look at the lower shift cable?

 

[Scott Danforth]

adjusting the lower shift cable is one of those normal annual maintenance checks

however the issue is most likely fuel system related

its almost never the ignition coil, dont waste your money (seriously, only 3 coils out of a million changed are actually bad)

 

[RedRock2020]

+1. Delco EST troubleshooting ain't rocket science and is far better than the old points and condenser system. Buying Pertronix kit is being a parts changer, it's not diagnosing.

If you can't fully diagnose a problem accurately, you can't fix it.

One could probably buy a nice late model low mileage compact car for the amount of money beginning boat do it yourselfers here in iBoats waste in being a "parts changer" of unused new parts. Buying first, diagnosing second, facepalming third. :facepalm:

The Mercruiser manual #26 outlines the clear diagnostic steps for doing this, you can look at the steps on http://boatinfo.no for free with a flash capable web browser.

It's so easy to follow, even a computer programmer armed with a multi-meter like myself can do it. (We are well known in our field to make simple stuff needlessly complicated.)


Return that Pertronix gear as soon as you can before your return window is gone.

Thanks for the link to the manuals. I am using the correct manual for the engine.

 

[RedRock2020]

Update for this thread.

The Ignition pickup coil replacement did fix this problem. I have about 10hrs of runtime on the boat now with 0 stalls, starts easier, idles better and most importantly doesn't randomly stall when idling into the dock.

One thing of note, when I timed the engine it seems to be about 2-3 degrees off of the max advance timing margin. Boat runs fine though from low through high rpms. If max advance timing is off too much I cannot tell by the sound of the engine.

Thanks for all the help from everyone on this!