Engine Alignment and rear engine mount bolt and washers

rickasbury

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
756
I am having a heck of a time lining my motor back up. I have engine serial number 0w038097 and out drive 0w251759. I have spent two days of the last two weekends tediously raising and lowering the front engine mounts trying to get that alignment bar to slide in easily, the two finger slide as I have been reading about. I can get it to where I have a decent grease pattern but it takes "effort" to get it in and out.

Little back story, I had a leak around my transom plate so I pulled the motor (350 MPI Horizon) out of my 2006 rinker 270. I don't know anything about previous maintenance, there were no records. The boat showed having 100 hours on it, I have had it four years. I figured even if he did nothing, I was only about 50 hours behind any given maintenance need so I bought it. Only problem I have really had is a blown coupler so I'm already suspicious of the set up. It's been down 2 years fixing the transom plate and now just getting it all back together.

I feel like the motor is just not sitting right for some reason. I have raised and lowered the motor, I get the grease to go from scraping the top of the tool to scraping the bottom and when I get a decent pattern, it is still to difficult to push the tool in. I have never done this before so just going by what I'm reading on sites, this is not good enough.

So, I start looking at the rear engine mounts, couple of things occur to me. So you have a motor sitting there with a coupler, you have a transom plate sitting there with a bearing and you have front motor mounts to adjust the angle of the motor to hopefully allow the tool to slide in. So how is that bearing and coupler aligned to the point you have only the minor adjustments of the front mounts to get it perfectly straight? When I put the transom plate back on, it was kind of fixed through the holes in the transom but hard to imagine those holes where they are drilled have any relationship to where the coupler is sitting? If the center of that bearing is a little left or right of the center of the coupler, it would never line up! Not getting that.

So, I look at the components of the rear engine mounts. They are pretty much the same for the serial number I have and for the serial numbers just below but I am seeing some discrepancy and I don't see an assembly parts drawing to show how the fly wheel cover and the transom plate sit together with the through bolt, spacers and washers in place. I assume all the washers, spacers and such go on the bolt before it goes through the flywheel mounts and then into the nut on the bottom, correct? I have it assembled with what would look like the right parts for my serial number, however, the washer under the head of the bolt is not tight against the fly wheel cover, like the engine could move up and down 1/.16" or so, is that right???

I have 3 parts drawings attached, one is for the flywheel for my serial number which also shows and calls out the bolts and such for the engine mount bolt. Then, I have two different parts drawings for the transom plate and shift cable which calls out for slightly different parts on that bolt. Oddly, one thing I do notice different is the one for 249999 and less, the bolts on the steering pivot bolts have their own washer with bend up tabs to lock the bolts, The one for my serial number shows one part that is kind of a handle shape that has the tabs on each end of it...kind of odd they don't match. Mine has the individual tab washers with is out of my serial number range.

So, the difference I'm focusing on with the parts is number 7 and 8. If you look at the flywheel drawing it calls out a part on part 8 that is a big spring lock washer looking thing. I did not find that on my boat when the motor was pulled. If you look at the parts drawing for 24999 transom plate, it also shows that lock washer but my serial number is 251759. When you look at the transom plate list for my serial number, that lock washer is not there and another SS flat washer is there instead. None of this would make any difference if all these parts and pieces go on the bolt before they go through the flywheel housing. But, for example, if that spring washer goes between the fly wheel tab and the tab on the transom plate then that would change the position of the motor and the ability to align it. What the heck do I have here? When I went through the parts I had when the motor came out, I had the bolt, a washer, a spacer and the fiber washer and that was it so someone screwed this up before, perhaps when they did the coupler or this was the reason the coupler failed.

Cylinder Block and Flywheel Housing.pdf
 

Attachments

  • Cylinder Block and Flywheel Housing.pdf
    1.1 MB · Views: 19
  • Transom Plate and Shift Cable 0w250000 (4).pdf
    552.9 KB · Views: 16
  • TRANSOM PLATE AND SHIFT CABLE sr 0w249999 (3).pdf
    532.8 KB · Views: 13
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Bt Doctur

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Messages
19,111
If you have the original style rear bushing that is smooth ,you need the double wound springs . if you replaced the rear bushings with the new type, knurled bottom you just use the SS washer
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
That serial number should have the new style rear mount, without the double wound washer. A few things to consider...
Did you tighten the rear mount bolts before starting the alignment procedure? Did you give the alignment bar a few sideways whacks to align the gimbal bearing? (I'm going to do a video on aligning the gimbal bearing, and why, in the next week).

If you're still having trouble with the alignment, then there is a bulletin on using thin stainless washers under the rear mounts to lift the rear of the engine very slightly. You may need to consider that....

(I'll see if I can find the bulletin and I'll edit and post it here).

Chris.......

EDIT: here's that bulletin...

View attachment 03-11.pdf
 
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Rick Stephens

Admiral
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
6,118
One more thought, did you take a dead blow hammer or similar and with the alignment bar all the way inserted, whack the end of the alignment bar up, down, left and right? Good solid thump each direction. This can take an almost aligned gimbal bearing and get it aimed exactly at the coupler. If the gimbal is off just a little, no matter how much aligning of the motor, the bar is still under side pressure.
 

rickasbury

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
756
Ok, first, this is totally awesome being able to get access to this sort of information. Can't thank you guys enough. It has been nearly two years since I pulled the motor- it is sort of coming back to me that the fiber washer was in between the tabs of the flywheel and the transm tab. Unfortunately, I have a motor sitting in the boat and the fiber washers in my hand. I was not looking at an engine installation/service manual with regards to these parts only the parts book it self which does not reflect this. Opps. So, with a 4x4 across the beam and my little come a long I hope to be able to lift the motor enough to slip these in between. I'm sorta remembering these were there when I pulled the motor and pulling them off as they were glued on. My bad. Crap. So the SS steel washer that goes with the fiber washer I did not have....so I bought one locally that is about the right size and is within about .015 of the right thickness, parts book says .105 thick. I will recheck in the am but I'd assume if within .015 then that would be close enough. From what I can remember, the SS washer would be thinner than the fiber washer is...

It is a bit confusing on the bulletin that page one shows the lock washer removed but does not mention the ss washer that goes into it's place on page 3?

And Rick, this part of the process of giving a good thump to the bearing makes no sense to me at all but understand it is part of the process...how in the world would you know where to thump, how much to thump and if your thumping did any good at all????

So, does that fiber washer then raise the height of the back of the motor that thickness? It does not appear looking at the motor installed that the bottom of the engine flange is sitting flush to the flange on the transom tab...looks like there is some space from something....

Thanks guys!
 
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achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
The fibre washer doesn't change the installed height. It's only there to stop direct contact between the flywheel housing and the mounting ears of the inner transom plate...

Chris....
 

rickasbury

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
756
Well, if it keeps them apart, does that not raise it some? Maybe I'm more dealing with what Rick Stephens is suggesting, when I had it pretty close I should have wacked on it a bit? Why is it important those surfaces don't touch, is the flywheel cover steel?
 

Bt Doctur

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Messages
19,111
If the motor mount is actually resting on the fibre washer ,it`s a sign the rear mount has collapsed and that will take out a coupler
 

rickasbury

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
756
so if does not touch, what the heck is it for then? I will fix it....hey, about rick's suggestion of aligning the bearing...is that likely my problem then? If I'm getting a patter on the tool with the grease but I can feel some pressure on it, that makes some sense. Will get to work.
 

rickasbury

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 13, 2011
Messages
756
so if the two flanges do not touch, what is the weight of the motor on?
 

Bt Doctur

Supreme Mariner
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Aug 29, 2004
Messages
19,111
the motor is supported by the bottom of the rubber bushing resting on the double wound washer or the SS washer
 

rickasbury

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
756
yep, I saw that when I pulled the bolts and installed the ss washer and the fiber washer. The fiber washer is loose so I guess the mounts are good. That washer must have raised the motor a bit in the back, problem now by adjusting it to the alignment tool I'm about to run out of thread on the front mount. Maybe a bad transom assy install at the factory? This is kicking my ass....I can get it to where it goes in but not a two finger push that I'm hoping to get to. I sure don't want to blow another coupler....
 

AKJohne

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
220
I went through this very same thing repeatably on my 5 year project, I even removed the motor and inner transom plate to make sure the transom was flat on the inside. I moved the front mounts, I bought new shims for the rear mounts, I made some thicker shims for the rear mounts.

Ultimately it was the smacking of the alignment tool that brought things into alignment, what may not have been said is the gimbal bearing needs to be brought into alignment. A indicator it is off is when the tool slides partway in and then gets tight. The alignment may be ok but the bearing is not parallel to the coupling.... so the tool slides in and then feels like it hits a ridge. Smacking the gimbal on the side of the shaft, top, bottom & both sides allows it to move, use a rubber or deadblow mallet, you can hit it quite hard, have the tool in as far as it will go.

Its one of those things that doesn't quite make sense until you have done it and then the ahah happens... Good luck..

https://vimeo.com/260111165
 
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rickasbury

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
756
yea, think I got there yesterday...have it aligned real nice...except I had to raise the front of the motor so high I ran out of threads...so, I think the motor lifts back up, I take off the washer I put in between the flywheel tab and the transom plate tab and do it all again- at least I will know what I'm doing better when I align it again....and what is a dead blow hammer?
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
....and what is a dead blow hammer?

Usually the head is filled with small lead shot... It doesn't bounce, all of the energy is imparted to the target...

Be gentle! I prefer the palm of my hand.. I should be getting a new gimbal bearing tomorrow, and I'll do a video on the how's and whys....

Chris...
 
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