1994 Dynasty 350 engine help

[tlt383]

This is my first post, these forums are set up a little different than others I've seen. I'll keep this as short as possible. I was given an 18ft Bayliner 3.0 by my friend's family after they moved away. I had done most of the mechanic work for their boat and cars for 5 years and they saw fit to have me enjoy the boat like they did. However, that tired little 4 banger is no match for pulling two tubes at once, has a very base model interior (No upholstery), and I love the sound of a V8 and the parts availability for performance use.

Last week I found an ad on craigslist for a 1994 Dynasty Elan 211 Bowrider that needed a new 350 engine, right up my alley! I'm very experienced in the auto world, especially Chevy engines. They were asking a lot considering the blown engine part, but I found out they wanted a smaller boat, and a trade was put on the table. Keep in mind this is a MUCH nicer boat than the one I was given, it's bigger, and it has a full fiberglass hull, no wood! At this time, we are set to even trade our boats. Now here's the tricky part...there is NO ENGINE in the boat. The mechanic took it out 2 yrs ago to diagnose and they went out of business, apparently taking all the stuff for the motor (the boat was taken home 2 hours away after the motor was first pulled out). I have all accessories and BRAND NEW manifolds and risers. But little parts like the shift plate, dizzy, and carb I will have to source myself. It's an Alpha Gen II.

I guess my main reason for this first post is to hear what you guys think. I'll let the pictures do the talking.

One big question is, do I have to remove the whole gimbal or transom (forgive my lack of terminology) to put this motor in? I'll have a pic below that shows what I currently see.

The white paint on the boat is completely oxidized, I tried polishing but it seems like its not working, what would you suggest?

I have a million more questions and will be a very active member here in the coming weeks, I'm very self sufficient and have learned a lot already, but it would be nice to hear some real world experience that you can't get by looking at a parts diagram.

I REALLY NEED a good set of pictures of a 1994 or so model 350 Merc setup so I have something to go by. Pics coming soon, thanks for looking!

 

[tlt383]

Here are some pics of the boat I currently have, followed by the Dynasty. One thing I forgot to mention is the Dynasty has a through hull exhaust with mufflers, which I wanted to do at some point so that's another plus in my book.























What kind of ignition module uses this plug? I can't seem to locate the correct one.

 

[Rick Stephens]

Welcome to iBoats Forums. Nice project. And a very very big one.

Can't say that is a full fiberglass boat, lots of wood - floors, transom stringers and so on are all fiberglassed in wood. All needs inspections. Every last piece of equipment laying in the bottom looks like it has been underwater for the last couple years, which didn't do them any good.

The connector you show looks to be for a ThunderboltIV ignition module by Mercruiser. No longer made. Probably easiest to just replace with a Delco Voyager complete electronic ignition. Cheaper and lots easier to keep working.


Start from the beginning by clearing everything out and inspecting. No reason you cannot build up almost any base SBC and using proper MARINE components make yourself up a motor. Water pump, ignition system, carburetor, fuel pump, alternator, starter - all are Marine ONLY. Use a stock pickup cam - no hot rodding or you'll be walking home in no time.

You also need to drill into the stringers and transom and make sure of soundness of the underlying wood structure. Clean inspect every last piece of iron that's been steeping for the last couple years.


Lots of knowledge here, so the best place to be.

Rick

 

[alldodge]

Howdy
Who ever removed the motor didn't appear to know what there doing. The bell housing should have been left attached to the motor, then remove the drive and the motor could be lifted out. I would suggest looking for a donor boat with a cruddy hull and good motor. Either that or buy a complete drop in, but dollars will be high for that one.

Most of what your needing can be found on places like ebay and the like.

 

[tlt383]

Welcome to iBoats Forums. Nice project. And a very very big one.

Can't say that is a full fiberglass boat, lots of wood - floors, transom stringers and so on are all fiberglassed in wood. All needs inspections. Every last piece of equipment laying in the bottom looks like it has been underwater for the last couple years, which didn't do them any good.

The connector you show looks to be for a ThunderboltIV ignition module by Mercruiser. No longer made. Probably easiest to just replace with a Delco Voyager complete electronic ignition. Cheaper and lots easier to keep working.


Start from the beginning by clearing everything out and inspecting. No reason you cannot build up almost any base SBC and using proper MARINE components make yourself up a motor. Water pump, ignition system, carburetor, fuel pump, alternator, starter - all are Marine ONLY. Use a stock pickup cam - no hot rodding or you'll be walking home in no time.

You also need to drill into the stringers and transom and make sure of soundness of the underlying wood structure. Clean inspect every last piece of iron that's been steeping for the last couple years.


Lots of knowledge here, so the best place to be.

Rick

Thanks Rick! Sorry, yes I became aware of that a few minutes ago, I went out and did a tap test with a wrench and all seems very solid around the stringers. I will inspect further later today.

Yeah I would love to upgrade the ignition, good to know there's an easy option. It will hook right up to my current setup or will I have to do some wiring mods and such? Tach output the same?

Yes I already have a Vortec 350 that was going in my truck, but I will marinize it and leave the truck cam in there. Probably will have the heads checked and install beehive springs for peace of mind instead of turning 5k on old stock springs.

Lastly, the boat has no cover and has been sitting for 2 years, therefore the water you saw was from me washing it yesterday, and the fact that the risers were left in the floor of the boat outside of the covered engine bay. The bottom sides of the risers still look brand new.

All things considered, knowing that I have not spent a penny to get this boat, how much would you say I could spend before fighting a losing battle? Being that I have a motor and there will definitely be some "custom" engineering on my part to save costs I plan on spending around $2,000 to get it seaworthy. All I will really be buying is bracketry and other little stuff, but I know how that can add up quickly.

Looking forward to this never ending journey....

 

[tlt383]

Howdy
Who ever removed the motor didn't appear to know what there doing. The bell housing should have been left attached to the motor, then remove the drive and the motor could be lifted out. I would suggest looking for a donor boat with a cruddy hull and good motor. Either that or buy a complete drop in, but dollars will be high for that one.

Most of what your needing can be found on places like ebay and the like.

Thanks, I tried to go back and edit, but I have already done so before, and the edit button is not there.

Yeah I'm starting to realize that the motor would be really hard to install like that. BUT, if the bellhousing was still attached to the motor that nowhere to be found I would have a much bigger problem on my hands. I'm guessing you have to remove the entire outdrive and get it all lined up then reinstall? Oh well, not too much more work I guess. Beats working on cars with no room to work with!

So there is no swap meet section here? That sucks, I bet I'd be able to find everything I need all right here.

 

[Maclin]

Regarding the tipping point for a losing battle with ROI (Return On Investment), I think the amount you will spend getting all the mechanicals going will be pushing that edge, just my opinion. Having sat outside uncovered for that long after whatever neglectful care it had that led to the engine problems lead me to believe there will be some structural things that need attention that can add up fast and go over what the boat would be worth after it is all fixed. But could get lucky, and sounds like you enjoy a project

 

[Rick Stephens]

Tipping points - hmm. Rebuilding this boat and staying on a tight budget is a non-sequiter. The two statements are not going to go together.

Example: I own a small ski boat, like your Bayliner, with a 3.0L Alpha1 in it. I bought a donor boat with a 'brand new rebuilt' Vortec V6 complete with outdrive for what looked like a good deal. Previous owner (PO) left the flame arrestor off the carb while stored outside with a tarp over boat with a brand new engine in it (idiots are everywhere). Short version of story, I had to rebore a brand new motor because of severe water pitting in one cylinder. Cost, about $600 with gaskets, pistons, rings and machine work. Motor is perfect though and now I know it. Next, the carb sat with water in it for however long. Aluminum and water don't do well. Cost, about $500 for a Edelbrock Marine carb not to mention the time and money I spent trying to fix the old Rochester. The PO also cheesed together an electric fuel pump. I did it right with OEM parts, cost, another $200 with OEM fuel lines and fittings. Plus replaced the starter since a different one was needed to have correct power to prime the elecrtric fuel pump. Cost - $100. The Thunderbolt ignition didn't spark. Only way to test is to swap in parts until you find the bad one, no longer made and the parts cost beau coup bucks.. Easier to buy a Delco Voyager - cost, $300. Now add to this that I pulled the old engine, and started work to fab in motor mounts, and ended up replacing most of the transom as well since it had a teensy bit of water intrusion from the starboard chine mounted sonar transducer mounting screws leaking. In the end, I probably spent $600 on materials like resin, cloth, sanding disks, grinder disks and a couple tools just to get the fiberglass work done. I will recoup quite a lot of this selling a perfectly running 3.0L and 1 year old SEI outdrive (from iBoats :^). But I easily doubled my initial 'good deal' on a donor boat's power package.

Free advice being what it is, I hesitate to jump all over some of this. However, you posted it so I am going to offer up some.

Being that I have a motor and there will definitely be some "custom" engineering on my part to save costs

I would say right off that you are dreaming here. ANYTHING that you shortcut will bite you and it is a true pisser to walk 20 miles over water back to the boat dock. Boats are incredibly simple, until they aren't. You are going to spend some pretty substantial dough just on the small cooling system parts like housings and hoses. And it can't be re-engineered to creatively save money. It has to be the right parts for the total application. And any parts in the boat that aren't in perfect running condition need to be replaced.

All I will really be buying is bracketry and other little stuff

Example: your boat has a wiring harness running back from the instrument cluster designed specially for the mercruiser drop in power plant. That harness ends in a rubber connector plug that goes on starboard front of engine. The engine will have a male version of that plug with a engine harness made to match attached to a bracket with breakers and slave solenoid. Everything is prewired on that engine harness - system circuit breakers, starter, ignition, fuel, gauges, charge system - everything has wiring built into that harness. You can redo it yourself, but better if you find one.


Advice. Start with basics - clean up everything. Pull the outdrive - takes 10 minutes and is an annual maintenance requirement anyway. So stop sweating that. Leave the transom plate and gimbal housing on unless you need to fix something. Pull the bell housing - 2 lousy bolts - whoever pulled the motor worked his butt off out of total ignorance. Must have been a miserable job getting the coupler bolts out.

Take a 1/2 inch drill and pop a few holes into the stringers, mounts and bottom end of the transom. LOOK at the shavings that come out, carefully. Post pictures.

THEN you decide what proper method is to move forward.


Rick

 

[Rick Stephens]

Pretty easy to do internetty searchies of decent pictures of 5.7L Mercruiser bobtail engines. Quite useful to get an idea of how parts fit and what people are referring to. Here's a decent one:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n84c5k65M4U/maxresdefault.jpg

 

[tlt383]

Rick, I might not have posted the right pictures earlier, but here's what I have to work with,

-full wiring harness, including solenoid which is mounted on the throttle linkage plate
-alternator and bracket
-PS pump and bracket
-belts
-starter
-thermostat housing and all hoses
-spark plug wires
-exhaust manifolds still attached to piping for hull exhaust
-fuel lines and filter with bracket


As of now I know I need,

-Shift plate
-Delco EST setup
-intake
-carb
-blower fan
-lots of other stuff

The Bayliner that was given to me is a ticking time bomb, it has a water leak around the manifold, probably lots of dry rot, among other things. So don't think i'm giving away the farm. I know I will inherit some problems with this boat just like they will with mine. I know boats are expensive, I know my ROI will slowly dwindle as time goes on but I plan on keeping this boat for a long time and I expect problems ( at least I'm being a more realistic boat owner now). I love a project, I do everything myself, it's nothing new to me. My classic cars keep me busy, can't be much worse than that, right? You're not the first person to call me a dreamer...but thanks for helping me chart this unfamiliar territory. Just trying to get a boat in the water this summer.

All that being said do you still think an even trade is fair? Should I ask for $500 on the top to cover all the miscellaneous crap I know I'll end up having to buy?

I'm trying as quickly as possible to learn all the mechanics of the powerplant, it's so strange to me because I know so much about cars yet I look at the outdrive and get weary about what bolts to remove, nothing a quick look at the SELOC manual won't fix! I will remove all that today and report back. Thanks for all your help everyone.

Also, what kind of electric fuel pump would you use? It's carbed so a low pressure pump is fine. The Vortec motors don't have the pushrod hole for the mechanical fuel pump.

 

[Rick Stephens]

I used the Airtex E11003, which is the OEM one. I searched around for a good buy. This let me use the Mercruiser mounting hardware and fuel line.

Don't bother with a Seloc manual. Total garbage. The Mercruiser Service Manual is available online and you NEED to follow it exactly. Will save money and lots of labor. I believe #17 is correct for your motor. http://boatinfo.no/lib/mercruiser/manuals/mercruiser17.html

Here's a link for a drawing of the Mercruiser 5.7Liter.
https://mercurymarine-gsdesign1.net...4v_installation_drawing_865108r85-and-r88.pdf


I have no idea how much value there is in either side of your trade. If I was buying that boat outright I would probably value it at $800 or so, personally. Now that's my half baked opinion based on about 122% guesswork since I haven't a clue how many parts need replacing. I offered $1200 for a similar Wellcraft that had a complete but disassembled 5.7L sitting in a box. Problem with that boat was sun and chemical damage to upholstery. Everything else was pretty pristine. Big upholstery jobs costs $$.

When it comes to outdrives, start with the Adults Only section at the top of this forum. It has links to everything you can imagine including simple utube videos on working on your drive. That has to be done no matter what. You cannot run a parked outdrive without servicing it. And you cannot install a motor and then the outdrive without knowing how to align it, lube it, get the water pump working and so on.

Rick