Runs only with Primer solenoid

[rgresen]

I have a E50TSLECC 1998 50 HP 2 Evinrude. First it will not turn off with key. Replaced ignition switch same problem.
It won't start without manually having gas admitted through the primer solenoid (red lever) or it is shutting off prime completely. When starting lever needs to be pointing to the right. To kill engine it will point up or fully counterclockwise If Clymer's manual is correct then I am flooding it to kill the motor. Then will only turn off by closing red lever completely I can't find a complete description how the whole fuel system works. I am thinking no gas is coming through the carbs. That when the engine is running with the primer solenoid the motion of the engine causes the engine to fire through the emf?
Any ideas? I am at wits end...

 

[flyingscott]

What is the emf? The fact it runs only on the primer solenoid is a fuel problem. Does your motor have have 1 or 2 carbs? I would clean the carb/carbs for the fuel issue. And look at your wiring for the not turning off problem.

 

[rgresen]

2 carbs. Electro motive force. I may be mistaken on the red lever. When starting and running it is full clockwise and to get the engine to stop it is full counter clockwise. If that is the case I have to flood the engine to get it to stop. It does not move from it's manually placed position when pushing in further than the lanyard.

 

[flyingscott]

EMF has nothing to do here. When it runs is the red lever in line with the body of the primer or at 90 deg to it.

 

[jakedaawg]

Hmm, think you have a lot going on here.

the red lever has two positions. Normal is inline/parallel to body of solenoid. Manual mode is 90*. Yes, some turn a little farther but if you can turn it 360* the cap is broken or not installed correctly.

Furthermore, we need to examine which wires you have on which terminals of your key switch. Pressing in on the key should make primer function but you will not see the lever move physically, it's not supposed to.

I agree that you probably need to visit the carbs if it will not run without the primer.

Start with a compression check. Report back results. No sense in talking you through all this if motor has bad compression which can result from running with fouled carbs.

Also, take a fuel sample into a clear jar. Make sure it's not phase separated. Brand new fuel can be bad.

 

[rgresen]

It will start inline to the body of the primer. I can turn off the engine by turning it to the 90 degree position. As I understand in the normal position no gas goes to the carbs through the primer. If that is the case then compression has to be good.
I will double check wiring on the new ignition switch but the problem is identical to when the problem of no turning off with key. I now manually turn red lever parallel and starts every time. 90 degress it turns off. I think I flood the engine to stall.

 

[flyingscott]

Your primer is fine it is working the way it should. Now look to the electrical.

 

[Joe Reeves]

In the above, 90 degrees is mentioned quite a few times pertaining to the automatic to manual setting of the fuel primer solenoid's red lever... wouldn't that be 180 degrees or am I missing something? The solenoid a*sembly being redesigned?
********************
(Fuel Primer Solenoid Function)
(J. Reeves)

The RED lever...... The normal operating/running position is to have that red lever positioned over top of the solenoid and aimed at the other end of the solenoid, gently turned to its stop. This is the normal/automatic mode position. Pushing the key in opens the valve within the solenoid allowing fuel to pass thru it in order to prime and start the engine. Looking upon this solenoid as a electric choke results in a better understanding of it.

Having that red lever turned in the opposite direction, facing away from the solenoid, allows fuel to flow thru it to the crankcase area. One would only turn the red lever to this position in a case where the battery might go dead and the engine had to be started via the rope pull method. Look upon putting the red lever in this position as moving a choke lever on a choke equipped engine to the full closed position. Either one would supply fuel to the crankcase/engine for starting purposes BUT if left in that position while running would flood the engine.

The later model primer solenoids are equipped with a schrader valve, used for attaching a pressurized can of fogging oil etc, available at your local dealership with complete instructions.

Pumping the fuel primer bulb up hard fills the carburetor float chambers of course, but that process also applies fuel pressure to the primer solenoid.

The two small hoses leading from the primer solenoid branch off via tees to each fuel manifold section that would feed fuel to the individual cylinders.

Pushing the key in activates the primer solenoid to allow fuel to flow thru it to the intake manifold passageways. Cranking the engine over causes the fuel pump to engage which in turn sends fuel pulses to the primer solenoid via the 3/8" fuel hose.

Some engines incorporates the "Fast Start" feature which automatically advances the spark electronically so no advance of the throttle is required for starting.
Engines that do not have the "Fast Start" feature will be required to have the throttle advanced slightly.

Starting procedure: pump fuel bulb up hard, crank engine and push the key in at the same time. When the engine fires/starts, release the key so that it falls back to the run position.

Bottom line..... Look upon the primer solenoid as an electric choke.
********************

If the fuel primer solenoid has to be engaged, either by pushing the key in OR turning the red lever to the manual position to have the engine start and running <-- This would allow fuel to bypass the carburetor and be directed directly into the intake manifold, indicated that the carburetor needs cleaning.

 

[rgresen]

Thank you and sorry for the confusion. 180 degrees on the lever -----> is manually off as I understand. No gas admission. If I apply choke by depressing the key the engine won't start. If I have at 180° like this -----> without depressing the key to choke it starts. Temperature is around 70° outside. No matter when the engine won't stop by turning the key off, after turning the key off I must rotate the lever back 90° so that it is pointing up.
^. Then the motor stops. I have replaced the ignition switch after the problem started. With no change in symptoms.
To me if I understand correctly the primer controls gas rather than air on a manual choke to get a corrected air.fuel ration.
It may be the primer is fine and given your insight sounds like I should concentrate on the non stop issue and revisit the start issue if I have troubles in colder weather.
That being said since the ignition switch has been replaced. Where to go from here? One additional note is that on the day this began.
The first symptom was the non stop motor by turning key off. After getting the motor to stop were both problems present.
The motor stopped only after 3 to 5 minutes after pulling the B terminal wire (red wire) off the ignition switch.
If my understanding is correct once manually setting the primer valve it will not chang unless depressing the key while starting the engine or manually moving the red lever.
I think I need to get the engine to turn off by the key then see if the solenoid on the primer works properly. Seems commonality would be ground?

 

[flyingscott]

That lever should only move 90 deg not 180. In line with the primer body is correct to use it electrically with the handle pointing at the wires. 90 deg or at a right angle to the body allows it to be used manually. If yours is going 180 degrees you have something wrong.

 

[rgresen]

It only moves 90° at a time... ----> this is 180 degree position.
^ 90 ° position

 

[flyingscott]

It only moves 90° at a time... ----> this is 180 degree position.
^ 90 ° position

That is not how that works. If I was you I would find a dealer to show me how that works.

 

[rgresen]

I'm sorry we have the wrong definition of degrees and position.
The primer appears to be working properly. If I need choke I push in and starts with the key. To stop the engine I push in the choke then turn key off. I can't turn off by the key only.
When I choke to stall the engine I assume it is flooding.
I replaced the ignition switch. That isn't the problem.

 

[juno pierrat]

not a bad way to turn off, shot of gas and OIL, at end of day, had a 115 that shorted 2 p-packs, shorted key switch, disconnected black/yellow wire, ran for years like that

 

[Vic.S]

I'm sorry we have the wrong definition of degrees and position.
The primer appears to be working properly. If I need choke I push in and starts with the key. To stop the engine I push in the choke then turn key off. I can't turn off by the key only.
When I choke to stall the engine I assume it is flooding.
I replaced the ignition switch. That isn't the problem.

It seems from what you have said here that the primer is operating correctly and that your only problem is that you cannot stop the motor by turning off the key switch.

You say you have replaced the key switch but what was wrong with the old one ?

ITYWF that the motor is stopped by the keyswitch shorting together the two wires on its "M" terminals. Check to see if shorting these wires together directly will stop the engine ( I think, but check, they are black and black/yellow)
If shorting the wires together does not stop the engine check their continuity. to ground and the CDI unit.

Do you also have an emergency kill switch with lanyard? If so will pulling the lanyard stop the engine?

 

[Joe Reeves]

That lever should only move 90 deg not 180. In line with the primer body is correct to use it electrically with the handle pointing at the wires. 90 deg or at a right angle to the body allows it to be used manually. If yours is going 180 degrees you have something wrong.

Scott....I don't have any fuel primer solenoids left in stock to refresh my memory... BUT... doesn't that RED lever turn a full half turn from the automatic to manual position? (Joe)

 

[flyingscott]

They move a 1/4 turn Joe. They turn from inline to the body to a right angle to the body. That is only 90 deg the op is adding those together that is how he came up with 180.

 

[Joe Reeves]

They move a 1/4 turn Joe. They turn from inline to the body to a right angle to the body. That is only 90 deg the op is adding those together that is how he came up with 180.

Okay, I'll take your word for that Scott, I appreciate the speedy reply, thank you. Strange how I remember it as 1/2 turn... must have been some other component in years past.

 

[lin301]

The primer solenoid on my 1995 50hp johnson is leaking and needs to be rebuilt. Do I need to remove the starter to access the fuel lines into the engine from the solenoid?

 

[GA_Boater]

The primer solenoid on my 1995 50hp johnson is leaking and needs to be rebuilt. Do I need to remove the starter to access the fuel lines into the engine from the solenoid?

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