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Any ideas why my johnson wont start?

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  • Any ideas why my johnson wont start?

    Hello all! My first post on this forum, although I've been reading from this forum (with no profile) for a little now.

    I just purchased a Jonhson cd-14 5.5hp outboard.

    I bought it from a guy claiming it didn't run, but all it needed was a pull cord and a fuel connectors.

    I inspected the engine overall:
    compression is 50 psi both cylinders after 4-5 pulls
    spark wont jump a 1/4 inch gap, but will jump an 1/8th so so
    Fuel is getting to the cylinders (I've squirted fuel into the cylinders just to be sure and tried to start it.

    so far... I've cleaned the points, the carb, and done some initial testing. It wont fire.

    It seems clear to me that the ignition system isn't operating as it should due to the low spark and that it only sparks once after a couple pulls. The coils are newer and not cracked. And the condensors look newer too.

    Should i just start replacing stuff in the ignition system until it works? I should also mention that the plug wires are old.

    thanks for any feedback!

  • #2
    welcome ,

    here are a few things to check out
    compression is 50 psi both cylinders after 4-5 pulls


    somewhat low but that can come up later if rings are just stuck (decarb products available) but first…..
    try another meter


    spark wont jump a 1/4 inch gap, but will jump an 1/8th so so



    you need to service the coils (possibly all cracked up) you need to pull the flywheel or peek inside via the inspection plate if you have one on top of the flywheel … you need to rework wires points condensers etc... no big job really
    Fuel is getting to the cylinders (I've squirted fuel into the cylinders just to be sure and tried to start it.

    regardless you need to service the carb


    http://www.leeroysramblings.com/OB%2...r_repairs.html
    lots of utubes … the net is your friend



    http://www.leeroysramblings.com/johnson_magneto.htm

    the 6hp cd is very similar to the 5.5 cd
    http://www.leeroysramblings.com/OMC_6hp.htm


    you will need a new impeller...easy job but a bit intimidating at first
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVOedhzPP7M

    you may…. need to convert to a fuel pump...if your tank shot (also a bit intimidating but easy nonetheless)


    this is a fun hobby, read a lot , enjoy take it slowly take pictures BEFORE disassembly of parts work clean
    and don't have any spare parts when done

    check out utubes....for more info

    visit also aomci site for oldies support


    invest in this book
    https://www.amazon.com/Cheap-Outboar.../dp/1891369628


    Last edited by Crosbyman; November 8th, 2018, 03:21 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      You should pull the rope till compression gauge doesn't go any higher. 50 psi is too low. Needs to be around 70 or more.

      1/8" spark is not good enough. Make sure the points are clean and gapped properly. You said the coils look good and are not cracked. Check the continuity of the plug wires. Better yet, replace them.

      Comment


      • #4
        true… coils not cracked…

        Comment


        • #5
          If spark will not jump a gap of 5/16 " with a " snap " you can hear the magneto needs some attention.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Crosbyman View Post
            welcome ,

            here are a few things to check out
            compression is 50 psi both cylinders after 4-5 pulls


            somewhat low but that can come up later if rings are just stuck (decarb products available) but first…..
            try another meter


            spark wont jump a 1/4 inch gap, but will jump an 1/8th so so



            you need to service the coils (possibly all cracked up) you need to pull the flywheel or peek inside via the inspection plate if you have one on top of the flywheel … you need to rework wires points condensers etc... no big job really
            Fuel is getting to the cylinders (I've squirted fuel into the cylinders just to be sure and tried to start it.

            regardless you need to service the carb


            http://www.leeroysramblings.com/OB%2...r_repairs.html
            lots of utubes … the net is your friend



            http://www.leeroysramblings.com/johnson_magneto.htm

            the 6hp cd is very similar to the 5.5 cd
            http://www.leeroysramblings.com/OMC_6hp.htm


            you will need a new impeller...easy job but a bit intimidating at first
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVOedhzPP7M

            you may…. need to convert to a fuel pump...if your tank shot (also a bit intimidating but easy nonetheless)


            this is a fun hobby, read a lot , enjoy take it slowly take pictures BEFORE disassembly of parts work clean
            and don't have any spare parts when done

            check out utubes....for more info

            visit also aomci site for oldies support


            invest in this book
            https://www.amazon.com/Cheap-Outboar.../dp/1891369628

            Thank you so much for the links! I now have read the full article on the magneto system and am fairly certain that I did not set up the points properly.

            I read in his article that Asian condensers are known to fail, the parts in the motor now are newer looking. Is there a way to check operation?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by F_R View Post
              You should pull the rope till compression gauge doesn't go any higher. 50 psi is too low. Needs to be around 70 or more.

              1/8" spark is not good enough. Make sure the points are clean and gapped properly. You said the coils look good and are not cracked. Check the continuity of the plug wires. Better yet, replace them.
              I am going to check resistance of the plug wires when i get a chance. I suspect them to be faulty.

              About the compression, 50 psi was as high as I could get them to go, with oil in the cylinders. After 5 pulls or more it wouldnt get any higher... Does this mean a overhaul is in my future?

              These engines fire twice per cycle? Yet, i dont get a spark every time I pull the cord... even if timing is off I should get something every pull, right?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by racerone View Post
                If spark will not jump a gap of 5/16 " with a " snap " you can hear the magneto needs some attention.
                Can the magneto be serviced other than replacement?

                Does the flywheel need to be inspected professionally? Or are these typically robust?

                can the coils not be close enough to flywheel as it passes?

                I'm concerned that I have a tolerance stacking issue, where my plug wires are bad, mixed with faulty condensor/coils/ points contributing to my problem.

                it is really throwing me off by not getting spark at every pull. And that it won't jump 1/4 inch.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Pull the spring connectors out of the plug boots, and clean off any corrosion. Refit the spike through the wire, being sure to contact the wire core.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    All parts can be tested.----And no the magnets in the flywheel will not be the issue.------Oldboat----If spark can jump a gap of 5/16" on a good magneto, why do you say it needs to have good contact in the plug boot ?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Erickm337 View Post

                      Can the magneto be serviced other than replacement?

                      Does the flywheel need to be inspected professionally? Or are these typically robust?

                      can the coils not be close enough to flywheel as it passes?

                      I'm concerned that I have a tolerance stacking issue, where my plug wires are bad, mixed with faulty condensor/coils/ points contributing to my problem.

                      it is really throwing me off by not getting spark at every pull. And that it won't jump 1/4 inch.
                      I believe "magneto" here refers to the assembled ignition (points, coils, wires....) You can check the magnet by dangling a small screwdriver near it (should grab the screwdriver) -- very unlikely to be a problem, but might as well check. The wires should have full continuity end to end. Sometimes there is a break in the inner core wire. The coils need to be mounted perfectly flush with the machined edges of the mounting posts -- establishes the proper flywheel gap. Clean the points (acetone or carb cleaner) and carefully reset to .020.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Erick, 50 psi is too low. The spark can be dealt with pretty easily, but you have a bigger problem. Maybe it'll run, maybe it won't.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Pull the cylinder head and check the head gasket.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Think I would continue troubleshooting the on-and-off spark issue, at the moment, along with spark intensity. If you haven't done so already, it would be a good idea to try another compression tester and see if you get different readings.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sign up today
                              Erick,

                              as you can see lots to work on and consider but the 5.5 CD is a great engine and you may have purchased an anchor or a jewel….

                              I have purchased a few anchors and all ended up as good runners. You can't fix compression for now so eliminate the other stuff that cost little or nothing . till then you need sparks, oxygen & fuel in the cylinders ...compression also but that will come later. As pointed out by Boobie you may need to pull the cyl head later on.

                              starting at ground zero I found that CHEAP OUTBOARD book a great read...I still read it sometimes.

                              if you plan enjoying oldies you will need to invest in tools like a three legged puller, , some parts ,
                              a "vom"

                              volt ohmmeter if you don't have one ( a $10 -$15 one is ok)

                              since your coils are not cracked .. at the very least measure ohms from the booths to engine frame ground . each should read between 4000-7000 ohms or so (use the proper scale on the meter) wiggle things around and those readings should be stable if not you likely have corrosion along the wires to the coils .. clean and redo all connections (booth spring pins up to the coils themselves ..after you get your puller and remove the mag plate. set your points at the high spot of the cam (0.020)

                              can't say it all here so watch some utubes and read books on the subject

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga1C...ature=youtu.be

                              "patience brings joy"
                              Last edited by Crosbyman; November 8th, 2018, 10:01 PM.

                              Comment

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