J115TLEOR Tilt Stuck up while on the lake. Record of diagnosis and fixes...

[jbuote]

I'm making this post more to document for others what I'm finding as I go...
(However, please speak up if you feel I'm missing something or the plan could use adjustement.. )

The tilt stopped working our last trip out, engine was up and we had to troll back to ramp with electric trolling..
Backstory is here: https://forums.iboats.com/forum/eng...discussions/10584760-tilt-state-while-fishing
Symptoms experienced at the time are in the above link...

Since then, I've decided to leave it tilted down unless absolutely necessary to trim up..

Ours does not appear to be fused at the battery, but does run off the main 20AMP fuse inline off the solenoid.
Finally got out there yesterday to discover that main fuse was blown..
I now know that even if I had used the manual release (which I now know where it is and how to use it) the engine would not have started anyway... :faint:

Can't find the manual I ordered when I bought this boat/engine, so going to have to order another...
I hate working on this without the Factory Manual... At least for now there are numerous diagrams as well as the boatinfo site.. It also seems like a fairly straight forward issue, so I don't feel completely in the dark on this until the new manual comes in. (Famous last words right? haha! )

Plan of attack now, is to replace fuse, and go over (AGAIN..) every connection (Pos and Neg) to ensure clean shiny connections. Will also remove any components that are bolted to block for ground and clean that too.. (again...)
I will also use my multi-meter to check resistance between the ground lugs/studs to the block.. I had that issue on my '71 50 hp a while back..

I will also examine wiring harness for any wires with broken insulation..
We've use this engine/boat combo a few times now but this is the first time it blew a fuse.. It also happened to be the first time it was tilted this far up... Will also be looking at the limit switch to prevent over-tilting.. Not sure that was working..

Other than this tilt issue, I've had ZERO complaints with this engine.. It has been a dream so far! Love it!!

Again, if anyone has thoughts I have not considered here, please feel free to let me know!

I will update as I get time to work on it and post how the results of each step go, along with any other issues found besides a blown fuse,...

 

[Rustywrench]

Just a hint here. If you find yourself out on the water with a blown fuse. You can use most anything to make connection to trim down, start motor, etc. once motor is started take out fuse bridge. Motor will run fine & you don't run the risk of the short causing further problems. Items I have seen used for fuse links. Chewing gum paper, fish hooks (cut off). Bobby pins, pieces of fishing lures. Anything metal. Sometimes it will be the primer solenoid that blows the fuse & since you don't use it all the time you might not notice the fuse only blows when you activate it?

 

[jbuote]

^^^ Good thoughts! Thank you Rustywrench !

I'll check it out, but I don't think the primer/Enrichment valve caused the fuse to blow though..
I had shut the engine down, then tilted it up and when I let go of the trim switch it stopped trimming up..
All working as expected...

It wasn't until I tried to tilt it back down to even TRY to start it again, that I found it wouldn't go down.
All was normal (or so it appeared) until I tried to lower it to get moving again..
Never even got to try pushing key in to activate primer...

But... Stranger things have been known to happen with circuits, so definitely worth looking at!
I appreciate it!!

 

[jbuote]

10 days later.....

Fuses finally arrived today!
None of the local spots had any AGA 20 amp fuses, so I ordered them online..
The manual I ordered came in a LOT quicker than the fuses! :frusty:

But anyway, it's all here..
Re-cleaned all the connections again.. Took off things that ground by attaching and cleaned those too.
Nothing "Stood Out" as a "Found IT!" moment though.

Hopefully, I can now get out to the boat in the next couple of days, install the fuse and run some more VOM tests to verify all is good..

 

[jakedaawg]

A pinched wire at the remote control is usually where I find t-n-t fuse blowing issues. Doesn't have to be a short to blow a fuse, just need increased resistance. Wet trim motors, pinched wires, corrosion, high amp draws, etc...especially pay attention where wires move.

 

[DRCrowe]

I had the same problem. It ended up being a broken wire in my shifter. The wire inside the insulation broke. It just bends back and forth every time you throttle up and down. I couldn't tell visually but could feel it. It felt like the wire inside the insulation was empty, like there was no wire inside! I cut and soldered the wire at the break and I'm back in business. Just a thought.
BTW, there is a screw on the right side of the outboard bracket that you can loosen up to get the motor back down. It takes a flat head screw driver, at least it does on my 87' 225. It releases the hydraulic pressure so the motor can go down. That way you can drive your boat back. You can lift the motor manually that way too.

 

[jbuote]

Hey thanks guys!!

The throttle control on the boat doesn't have the tilt switch in it.
There's a switch on the dash for the tilt.. (PO Hack!! :facepalm: )
Checking and rechecking that switch wiring though is foremost on my agenda.

I intend on getting a different remote with the tilt switch in it so it's proper, but for now, that's not it for this case.

EXCELLENT information though for future views and folks having the issue for sure!!
I appreciate it!!

 

[flyingscott]

There is also a manual release for the tilt and trim if it gets stuck in the up position

 

[jbuote]

Thanks for the manual release tips...
That day it got stuck I told the Admiral... "Well.... NOW I feel like an idiot... I know it has a manual release, but I'm not sure how to use it... Should've figured that out before now! :facepalm: "

I didn't know then, but I mentioned in the first post that I had since figured it out

.......
Finally got out there yesterday to discover that main fuse was blown..
I now know that even if I had used the manual release (which I now know where it is and how to use it) the engine would not have started anyway... :faint:
.........

Also went further a I think I've identified the type of TNT.. I've read there could be conventional or FasTrak.
Well, my reservoir and valve assembly bolt on to the sides, not the top. From what I've seen that means I have FasTrak.

I've also read that most folks like the FasTrak better than conventional, but my searches haven't really shown WHY it's liked better.

Other than it is a bit faster through it's tilt/trim ranges, why is that?

 

[jbuote]

Finally got out with the fuses..
Put new fuse in, did a little more clean up on connectors etc. with my dremmel wire brush.
All tested ok (no resistance from end to end, so connected battery.

Cycled all the way up and down multiple times with no issues...
Didn't notice any voltage drops out of spec.

Must've been some missed corrosion on the connectors that I got cleaned this time..

So, even when you THINK they're clean, do some more to be sure! LOL

 

[Fed]

FWIW the fuse is only on the T&T control circuit, the T&T motor is NOT fused.

Was it a glass fuse, could you see the fuse wire, how did it look, completely gone or just tweaked in the middle?
You can tell a lot from a fuse wire, dead short vs fatigue/overload vs fuse too small and even high resistance connection on one end or the other. I always put my CSI goggles on when I find a blown fuse.
It's also important to have the correct fuse in it, the PO could have put anything in there.

 

[jbuote]

Hey Fed !!

I didn't think the TNT motor was fused. The diagram in my factory manual agrees with that as well..

Yes, it's one of those tiny glass fuses. AGA style buss fuse, 20 amp.
That's what was in it, and it's also the same fuse used in my 1971 Johnson 50.
It goes into that rubber twist apart inline fuse holder.
Factory manual calls for OMC p/n 510884, which sure looks like a simple AGA 20 amp fuse to me..

I've heard you can tell a bit about how a fuse blew by looking at it, but honestly, I'm quite rusty on that.
But even if I wasn't rusty, I was only a "Beginner" if you will oh so many years ago...

Some have forgotten more than I currently know.. .HAHA!!
Here are 3 pics of the fuse that came out. Not the best, but tried to get some good angles.
What does this fuse tell you? I'd love to hear it, and if I have to, based on what you see, I'll look into something else too.

I really appreciate your input here!!

 

[Fed]

It tells me I'd be looking for a short circuit rather than an overload or a high resistance connection.
Bad connections don't normally blow fuses unless they are right at the fuse terminal and the heat generated goes into the fuse itself adding to any heat already in the fuse wire from current flow.

Keep in mind the short circuit could be anything connected to the fuse not limited to the T&T control circuit.

I'm glad it's you & not me looking for it.

 

[jbuote]

Hmm... Ok..
I was originally thinking short due to the blackening of the glass, but I couldn't find any..

Now I'm thinking I'll keep a supply of fuses, and my large flat-head screw driver for the manual release on the boat and use it.
IF the fuse blows again, I'll take note of what I was doing or using at the time.

I might just do some tests in the yard here, where I'll start it, shut it down, Tilt it, Operate primer, try tilt etc...
Different combinations of things. Maybe a pattern will emerge if it blows again.

It's just confusing a bit, since when the fuse blew, I had shut off the engine, and tilted the engine up.
All seemed normal. I didn't realize the fuse had blown until I tried to tilt it down again, and it wouldn't.
The last thing I did was tilt it up, and it seemed fine doing that.

I guess I'll have to cut the cover off the wiring harness coming out of the engine, and look at the wires there.
Perhaps the engine tilted too far up and bent the wire harness to a point something shorted in the wire bundle, which would only show itself if bent to that extreme again.

Will definitely keep an eye on it and update should it show up again, or I find something.

 

[jakedaawg]

Perhaps the engine tilted too far up and bent the wire harness to a point something shorted in the wire bundle, which would only show itself if bent to that extreme again.

^^^^ This.

Some boats use little circuit breakers on the dash. Sierra sells them. Probably right on this site. Get the 20 A. Solder two leads. Put in place of fuse. Start testing. It's only your time, it's not like the shop is billing you T&M to track it down. There really aren't that many wires that bend when you tilt up high. I have found them where a hot goes to ground such as on a metal cowl.