Johnson 115 won't "RPM"

81manatee

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I'm looking for some help please, gents.

I recently picked up a 1981 Manatee center console powered by a Johnson 115. The model number is J115TLCIM, I've been under the impression that the engine is a 1981 model, but the model number decodes as 1978. I'm not even sure that matters much though, just seems odd. [EDIT - There is no question, the engine is an '81 model]

Anyways, the engine was tuned up within a few months of transferring ownership to me, and ran beautifully the first time I took it out on the water. I put 87 octane E10 in it with additives figuring I'd be fine, and have had nothing but problems since. I suspect that the problems I have now are directly related to this fuel, but am here to hopefully gain some direction for how to diagnose and repair myself.

The engine has a hard time idling after sitting. It will fast idle, but wants to choke out when I lower the throttle lever, this is in neutral, either on the water, or on the flusher in the driveway. I was on the water a couple weeks ago headed to the first cove we like to fish at around 2/3 throttle (no tach) and it was like someone flipped a switch. Suddenly the boat slowed waaayyy down, and I wound up with the hammer all the way down just to keep the engine running. We went straight back to the launch, barely making a wake, with the engine seeming to be bogged down at around maybe 1000 RPM or so, and as soon as I brought the throttle back up to dock, the engine cut out.

I pulled the plugs at home, and felt a good puff of air out of all 4 holes. All plugs showed signs of combustion. It made me think I didn't have to worry about low/no compression and that I could rule those out as causes to the problems its giving me.

This past weekend, I pumped all of the fuel out of the main tank, and sucked it out of the line from the tank to the fitting on the engine. Filled with fresh, pure 87 octane unleaded and Johnson/Evinrude 2 stroke @ 50:1, and got the engine seemingly ready to work. The only thing that seemed off was an apparent delay in revving up to fast idle on the muffs. It eventually idled nice and smooth in the driveway. I put the boat in the water and SAME THING...it didn't want to idle. When it did finally idle, it cut out when I went to reverse away from the dock. I eventually got away from the dock, and running well enough to move forward, and same thing, it would not rev up, and would not push the boat faster than say 5 mph or so. It seems like I have carburetion problem(s), but I really have no idea.

Does this sound familiar to you? Can you offer any insight or direction to help me get this thing running right? Thanks in advance for any advice, guys...
 
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racerone

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It is an 81 model !---No idea why you would think it is a 78 model.---Do the compression test first.
 

81manatee

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I must have been looking at the charts wrong. After looking again, I too have no idea how I thought it was a '78. Thanks.

I perform a compression test on a carbed car engine with the throttle fully opened. How do I do it on this engine?
 

Joolz

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Hi, have the same motor (83 here but same) and this is what I did: just get her done. You're just looking for consistency between the cylinders, so no need to worry about opening the throttle, warming up the engine, etc. Just do it cold to get an idea of the range. At least this is what I did and this gave me all the peace of mind I needed, on a motor that I already knew run just fine and had been well kept by the PO. It was also done after I put in 4 new spark plugs.

The MOST IMPORTANT thing to remember - and this is something that no one talks about: plug in the water hose to the engine and ensure you have water coming out of the holes. All that dry cranking could damage your impeller.

For reference, here are the numbers I got for mine: 109, 110, 110, 115. A pretty healthy spread with minimal deviation between cylinders, which is the main thing you want to see.
 

81manatee

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I've been reading around this site, and watching youtube vids of compression tests on outboards. Warm motor, cold motor, throttle open, throttle closed. I understand the concept, looking for a bad hole or holes. Thanks for the advice on the muffs. I'll post back with my findings.
 

interalian

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Cold motor, throttle closed will be fine as a basic test. If you crank it over using a starter switch on the solenoid, ignition key off, there's no need to ground the plug wires. You should get 110-120 psi per cylinder on this motor. 15% variance from highest to lowest was considered a "fail" by OMC when these were new.
 

Joolz

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Oh yeah, that is the OTHER most important thing: ground the plugs as indicated above, if you don't have a starter switch. Grounding is how I did my test, it was very easy, just a long piece of spare electrical wire cut in pieces and you're good to go. Think I have a pic of it here in the forum, if you could use the reference. Let me know and I can look it up.
 

flyingscott

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If you have a tether switch just pull that to disable the ignition. If no tether switch just jump the starter with jumper cables and leave the ignition switch off.
 

81manatee

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I pulled the kill switch, and hooked up the muffs. I couldn't find my push button switch, so I had one of my boys on the key for me. I don't know which cylinder is which, but facing the engine from behind the boat:

Top left 130
Bottom left 130
Top right 120
Bottom right 120

My compression gauge must have taken a fall sometime because the case is loose. My readings may not be completely accurate. I may wind up picking up a new one tomorrow.
 

racerone

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Sounds like it is running on 2 cylinders.---Check plug leads are on correctly and see if spark will jump a gap in air of 3/8" or more.----Checked flywheel key ?
 

81manatee

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New compression test gauge. Calibrated off my compressor which has new gauges. The tester gauge showed the same psi as the compressor gauge.

Top left 95
Bottom left 95
Top right 80
Bottom right 80

This was with throttle closed, engine cold, and muffs hooked up.
 

racerone

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Throttle position simply does not matter on that 2 stroke engine.---That has to do with ports being wide open before compression starts in the cylinder.----Take the heads off as I suspect problems internally !
 

81manatee

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Was just stating the conditions. I have a service record from previous owner dated 2/17 showing 1-4 as 120-130-120-130.

Now to find out what happened.
 

Joolz

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New compression test gauge. Calibrated off my compressor which has new gauges. The tester gauge showed the same psi as the compressor gauge.

Top left 95
Bottom left 95
Top right 80
Bottom right 80

This was with throttle closed, engine cold, and muffs hooked up.

These numbers are more in line with the motor's age and expected loss of compression over time. However the concerning part is the nearly 20% discrepancy. That is far higher than what the factory views as the norm. Does this mean a head job? I don't know, I'm no expert. With my dirtbike when compression takes a dump - and you know it - then it's a no brainer: replace the cylinder, rings, etc. On an outboard I have no idea how hard this would be but glad I don't face such fate at this time. All I can say is, wait for opinions from more qualified users but be prepared to spend some money on a head kit. And/or refinance your house if you can't do the job yourself!
 

81manatee

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For giggles I tested the ignition with a cheapy spark tester. It was set around the 40 mark. 1 cylinder with spark at the top left. All others no spark. The plugs from left side are sooty, and the right side are clean.
 
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81manatee

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This didnt add up to me. I double checked all 4 cylinders. I get spark from both leads on the left side. No spark from the two on the right.
 

81manatee

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How odd is it that the 2 low compression holes are the same two that are not firing?
 

Joolz

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Can you switch the wires around and redo the test? If they fire then you'll know it's the wires.
 

racerone

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This motor has 2 switch boxes / cdi units.----Switch them around a post the results !-----The ignition system is NOT the same as you would find on an old 283 smallblock Chevy.
 

81manatee

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Finally got around to working on it a little more. I swapped the working powerpack from the left side to the right side of the engine. No spark at the plug wire for the top cylinder. I swapped the powerpack from the right side to the left side, and tested for spark. No spark. That's all I had time to test. It seems like this means the powerpack from the RH side is bad, because it didn't make spark on the LH side. However, I've also realized that I need to double check all these connections, and test on both cylinders on both sides, and maybe start swapping coils and wires around to hopefully identify what's what.

The powerpack has 4 pigtails, seems like one goes to the coils, one grounds at the mounting boss for the powerpack, and there are two others. What are the other two? I'm asking because one of these has to feed juice to the powerpack, and I have a feeling I'm going to need to check for power feeding to the powerpack on the RH side.
 
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