Force 150 hp running problems

[Jozone]

Hello everyone.

I have force 150 1992 or 1991 thats has some problems with running propellerly.

What i have done so far,

New plugs
New diphrams
New bulb
New gas
New fuel lines and recirulation lines
Sync carbs
150 psi on all 5 cylinders
Cleand out the carbs, but not rebuilt them.

​​​​​Have no problem with fuel pumps anymore, fuel filter stays full without bubbleS.

When i have no gear in i have to start with 3/4 full gas to get the motor to run properly.


When i manually throttles in neutrall it slowly speeds up, starts to missfiring and then just cuts out.

Have noticed it works better when rasied out of the water some.

Also habe milky white fuel in the carbs after i run it for some time

Any ideas what problems i might have.

Greatly appriciate all help.

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[Jiggz]

Based on the symptoms provided, there are multiple issues with your motor:
1. Milky fuel in carbs' bowls - water or contaminated fuel - try using an external tank for diagnosing. Even with a small jug of fuel oil mix and an open ended suction hose will do.
2. If the milky fuel is actually running or blowing back from a carb or carbs, this could be a bad reed- Take note which carb and you will have to dismount to check the reed block.
3. Works better when raised out of the water, indication of exhaust leaks. You need to check this with the LU under water, remove the cowling and check were the leak is coming from.
4. Slowly speeds up, starts misfiring and cuts off - this could be related to exhaust leaks.

 

[Jozone]

1.fuel is from fresh tanks newly fueld up, but kan test with a new can and see how it looks.

2. Checked all the reed blocks and they look all good, maybe gaskets? Used old gaskets with permatex liquid gasket to seal them properly.

2 can see exhaust comming from undee the cowl, the small hose is broken and waiting to replace does this mater for exhaust presure?
Can a lose reed or gaskets cause this?

4. When i take link and raises it to it revs up sometimes and sometimes just cuts out right away.
​​​​​Have noticed alot of smoke when on full open throttle, blue smoke and sometise a bit of white afterwards when throttleing down like its takeing in water in the cylinders

​

 

[Jiggz]

Smoke coming from the smoke hose, that small hose is the exhaust relief valve. When idling in neutral with LU under water (i.e. boat not moving), exhaust cannot go out the exhaust snout which is under water. Instead, the exhaust will exit at the two "nostrils" at the mid leg which is located above water. And this is where the small corrugated hose connects to. The hose gets old and wears out.

When you replace this "small hose" you need to dismount the mid leg and pay attention with the spring inside the hose. This is critical to keep the hose stretched out to seal. And then use stainless hose clamps to clamp it. You can also use nylon tie straps.

You need to give more explanation for the milky fuel you mention. Is this at the carbs' bowls on all bowls or just one bowl? Or is it on the outside of the carbs? Or coming off the mouth of the carbs? Post pic if you can for a better explanation. Remember when you fully tilt the motor, fuel oil mix from the carbs will flow out of the carbs and it does look bluish milky depending on how long it has been exposed to the air.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Do a spark test on each cylinder.
Broken hose? pics? if the exhaust hose is broken? then the motors being choked out.
The hose needs to be fixed before any other tests can be done.
Except the spark test.

Can of starting fluid, run at idle, then spray SF around the intake around the carbs, then spray around the
5 port covers under the packs/coils.
If that makes a difference in the way it runs? then it's sucking air somewhere.
One tiny backfire can blow the port cover gaskets.

The choke/primer: start motor, pinch off the hose from the primer to the carbs.
Make a difference? then the diaphragm in the primer's gone bad. Replace primer.

 

[Jozone]

Thanks so much for both replys.

Was up today testing the engine.

So am in the process of chaning port cover gaskets since the SF test showed some increse in rpm whem i sprayed there, will also use loctite on all fittings to make sure they are not leaking.

I noticed that if i use the primer when i rev it, it goes up just fine and keeps the rpms up whitout misfiring.

So am thinking the port gaskets are bad, chaning to my homemade 1mm gaskets.

Will keep you updated on the progres.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Your using the primer when running and it improves the running???
It should actually make it misfire and possibly stall.

You pinch off the hose while running?

I'd check the fuel system before you run it?

One little backfire/cough/stutter can blow the fuel pump diaphragm along with the gaskets.

 

[Jozone]

I checked the primer and it does not leak at all. Tried pinching of the hose and no difference at all

What i meant is that at idle or 3/4 throttle without gear it runs pretty good.

When i full throttle the engine and i hold the override on the primer it runs without any misfires or stutters.
I checked the fuel pumps and they seam to do their jobs without any leaks, have a clear fuel filter between pumps and carbs.

But i suspect air leak some wear.

Port gaskets are getting replaced, replaced carb gaskets

Can i wrongly adjusted float be a suspect?

Also noticed i probably have bad ignition lock, had some spark problems that got resolved once i took away ground from it.

Does not seam to have any exhaust leaks at the moment that stops it from running in the water.,

 

[jerryjerry05]

Try resetting the floats if you think they are wrong??

You said:

Also noticed i probably have bad ignition lock, had some spark problems that got resolved once i took away ground from it. ?????? Don't understand?

Do the starting fluid test.
Can of starting fluid, start the motor, spray the SF around the intake side of the motor.
Base of the carbs,the port covers under the flywheel.
If that makes any difference, then it's sucking air.

You take the pumps apart? Check the diaphragms. ​

 

[Jozone]

Will reset floats again then just to be sure.


Ahh i removed the ground wires from the ignition lock.

Have had some on and off spark problems and it seams that was from my ignition lock, i lost all spark for some time and after some fiddling i got spark back.
Tested to pull apart the black and yellow kill wire and it helped and when i took away ground from ignition lock, think its m terminals, then i dont have to pull apart the kill wire.

Yes i just renovated the pumps with new diaphrams and gaskets around the diaphragms, have no air bubbles in the fuel filter.

Will do some more gasket shifts tomorrow and see how it runs.

Only problem seams to be WOT right now and i think it because of bad gaskets.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Do the starting fluid test.

 

[Jozone]

Did a sf test as good as i could, pretty windy today.

Noticed no increase in rpm as i did SF test.
So new port gaskets really helped alot, also checked the pumps and no issue there with fuel coming thru to the carbs.

When i reved the engine if i boosted the bottom carb with extra fuel it ran at wot no issue.

Am suspecting air leaks some wear, next task might be to change adapter plates and reed gaskets, they were pretty dry when i opened up to check the reeds.

Had alot of Blowback in bottom carb like.

Will reset floats in the carbs again just to be sure.

Do bad voltage in the battery make the engine not want to give spark, had around 8.5 volts at cranking on red on converter box.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Blowback from the carb says the reeds are bad!!

Bought a snake camera for my smart phone, about 11$
Just make sure you get the one for your phones system.
Ordered one and turns out it was for something other than the one I needed,
my phone needs an Android system camera.

 

[Jozone]

Thanks for your anserw, took apart my bottom car and readjusted the float and checked the reeds and resealed it again.
No blowback right now as it was running before i lost spark.

Have tried disconnecting black/yellow wire from box that sends signal to the coils.

Now i have another problem and that's that i have no spark at the moment.

The converter box has 12v to it.
about 9.7v at cranking.
Violet/white has 0,4-0,5volt AC and DC at cranking.
Blue wire has no voltage at all.

Any ideas where to go from here

 

[jerryjerry05]

No spark? bad stator, kill switch, regulator,
outboardignitiondotcom has test procedures for your motor.

 

[Jozone]

Yes i lost spark in the middle of testing.

Have no kill switch wired, have unplugged the ignitionlocks ground (m terminals), unplugged the kill wire from the switchbox (the black/yellow one).

Is there a kill switch from the trim/tilt on this motor.

My tach does not work at the moment (dont know if its a bad rectifier or bad tach), will a bad regulator/rectifier casue ignition issues?

Wich one is the right test procedure, since i have a non altenator driven ignition on this engine.

 

[The Force power]

depends if you have a Presolite Or Mercury ignition-system, attached is a schematic for a Prestolite
or look for
CDI TROUBLESHOOTING GUIDE PRACTICAL OUTBOARD IGNITION 6th edition

 

[Jozone]

I have the thunderbolt ignition system with mercury parts.

5 dark blue coils.
1 switchbox black
1 inverter 4 connections
1 rectifire 4 wires
1 trigger
1 stator

 

[The Force power]

http://www.cdielectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/CDI Troubleshooting Guide - 2012.pdf

have you looked in here?

 

[Jozone]

Yes i have, does not help alot i feel like.

I messured the inverterbox at cranking and its as follows:

red: 9,7v
purple/white: 0,4v messured with AC on my meter
ground is good.
Blue no indication at all.

So i dont really know if its the switchbox or inverter thats acting up right now