Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

[monk-monk]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

Lots of good info here to consider! My '72 Merc 1150 means a lot to me! i have decided that i will run the Valvoline Outboard oil from NAPA! I have shopped at W-mart for everything from clothes, bed linens, small appliances, etc. and everything i've ever bought from there was junk! I've bought T-shirts that came apart on the first wash, I bought a dinnerware set that the plates were so warped its almost comical...this Store has a history of demanding its suppliers to deliver the cheapest product possible at Bulk rates! And is there another retail outlet that sells SuperTech or is this product produced exclusively for W-mart? And this one i'll never bite on: NO major manufacturer of anything, be it from cereal to hardware, is going to produce and package top quality products (equal to, or better than) their own standards and then sell the same "formula" under a generic label for less money! IT JUST AIN'T HAPPENING! Corners will be cut! Im gonna use a reputable brand name oil...Valvoline! Im just not willing to trust the money hungry big box store merchants who want to deliver the cheapest piece of crap product with the biggest profit margin for them! C'MON...true top quality products equal to original manufacture formula...FOR LESS!...NOT HAPPENING, AND NEVER WILL!!

 

[pcrussell50]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

I have not read all the posts leading up to this point, and I'm a boating noob, but I do race sports cars and build my own automotive engines...and I use Walmart's super tech oil in my engines. I was concerned about it at first, but when I started sending my used oil to a testing lab, not only did it it come out fine, but the lab tech's themselves use it because it's as good as any, and a good bit cheaper. I'm talking dino oil here. I've not had their synth oil tested yet.

-Peter

 

[monk-monk]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

thats interesting Peter, i've read your reply with open mind...couple of thoughts, if your sending your used oil off for testing and your primary experience is with cars, then that leads me to believe you are speaking about 4-cycle engines...the oil in my two-stroke engine is mixed with the gas as a lube for the entire reciprocating assembly and it is also introduced into the combustion chamber (mixed with the gas) and must be burned off cleanly as combustion happens, this leaves the oil non-recoverable for testing. So, with the 4-cycle engine the gas and oil are basically seperated, i think the big question here is how well this oil is lubricating and how cleanly it is being burned off by combustion in the cylinder. Two-stroke oil is very demanding in that it must have good viscosity to lubricate, but it also must burn off cleanly leaving little or no deposit behind, hence fouled plugs, stuck piston rings, etc. BUT, i am still impressed that you have dino run engines with this oil and had positive results with it!

 

[d.boat]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

... NO major manufacturer of anything, be it from cereal to hardware, is going to produce and package top quality products (equal to, or better than) their own standards and then sell the same "formula" under a generic label for less money! IT JUST AIN'T HAPPENING! ...C'MON...true top quality products equal to original manufacture formula...FOR LESS!...NOT HAPPENING, AND NEVER WILL!!

Well, as you know, the price people pay is not determined by the cost to produce it. It is based on what the buyer is willing to pay. In addition, even though they don't totally determine price paid, the cost of the item can affect it - but that cost is determined by more than what it costs to produce it. Cost of marketing, shipping, cost to sell it (cost of space, utilities, personnel) etc. can affect the cost.

So, bottom line is yes - two items can be identical but cost more to get to the buyer because of those factors. That will generally cause one to sell for a higher price than the other even though they might be identical in quality.

But more important, regardless of those costs, what people are actually willing to pay is not really based on the cost to deliver the item, but really based on:

Actual objective quality
perceived quality
status
convenience.
trust of the store you're shopping at.
etc.

To say that just because something is priced higher or is sold at a certain store (napa vs. walmart for instance) really is not true at all. My opinion is that you trust NAPA and/or Valvoline more and therefore are willing to pay more to buy oil there rather than Walmart, but you really have no basis for saying it's better oil.

I'm not saying Walmart oil is better or worse than oil sold at NAPA, its just that your rationale does not hold up based on economic and cost vs. price principles I'm familiar with.

 

[monk-monk]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

point well taken my friend! it is all about the consumer, and what they believe in, that dictates where the "market" flow is at...some (like me) trust in buying a top Brand label...all along, paying more just becuase it has the "big" name on it...while all along that "big" Brand name is actually selling (and making more money) buy marketing their product through a high volume big box store under a different label (where consumer foot traffic is high)! good point!

 

[pcrussell50]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

thats interesting Peter, i've read your reply with open mind...couple of thoughts, if your sending your used oil off for testing and your primary experience is with cars, then that leads me to believe you are speaking about 4-cycle engines...the oil in my two-stroke engine is mixed with the gas as a lube for the entire reciprocating assembly and it is also introduced into the combustion chamber (mixed with the gas) and must be burned off cleanly as combustion happens, this leaves the oil non-recoverable for testing...

The SuperTech I had tested has 4-stroke auto engine oil, true. I guess I was just hoping that since their car-oil did well, then maybe they "make" good 2-stroke oil, [realizing Wally himself doesn't actually make it]. But, while the lab I send my oil samples to usually tests used oil, I see no reason they can't test new oil. One of the tests they perform is for the concentration of the additive package. If Wally oil has less of it than the good stuff, I'm guessing it could be dectected.

FWIW, the reason I send my track car's oil off for testing is to determine the health of my engine. They look for coolant in the oil, fuel in the oil, combustion gasses, bearing material, metals too small to see, evidence of filter bypassing, yadda, yadda, yadda. Too bad we can't do the same for our two-strokes.

-Peter

 

[arboldt]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

As usual, when a question like this is asked, there is often more heat than light generated in the responses.

There are several things I think we can all agree on:

1) Most oils on the market are manufactured by only a few refiners.
2) Refiners probably have different formulae (recipes, if you will) for different brands.
3) Any brand with the TCW-3 designation will meet minimum specs. (unless manufactered in China, then all bets are off)
4) Some brands may exceed those minimums -- maybe a little, maybe a lot.
5) Relative prices charged may or may not reflect the underlying cost to produce. Marketing, perception, and status can also greatly affect price.
6) We all may have a favorite, for various reasons.

Way back, I asked if anyone knew of any scientific testing to tell us is one oil was superior or if others (less expensive) were just as good.

Ziemann, I appreciate your posting the specs. That's a good start, but doesn't really tell us how different oils actually rated (you pointed that out, I believe).

ondarvr, you've come the closest to answering my question. While your answers were not scientifically measurable, you did indicate qualitative differences in the amount of smoke, odor, and 'goo'. I really respect and appreciate your observations. Thanks.

Short of determining if the oil was any good when the engine dies and is "dissected", is anyone aware of any scientific tests to determine the solubility / viscosity / lubrication value of oil? My boat uses an oil injector (probably not the correct term) to mix oil and gas; I do not premix.

I'm certainly not a scientist or a mechanic. Like I observed a couple days ago, Consumer Reports did test automotive oil and found no functional difference. It doesn't sound like there's been that level of laboratory-based testing for marine 2-cycle oil. Maybe someday there will be.

Thanks to all.

 

[NelsonQ]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

Great reading here. Makes me feel better on my decision last night at Wally World. I'm tired of paying $40/gallon for Evinrude/Johnson semi-synthetic.

So I looked at SuperTech but they only had single liter/quart bottles. But a gallon of Castrol 2 stroke oil is $18/gallon. I'm gonna give it a try. It's TCW-3 certified, and I use Castrol in all my other engines with no issues, so I'm gonna run it. But, I'd certainly feel comfortable running the SuperTech now as well.

 

[Major Woods]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

It doesn't sound like there's been that level of laboratory-based testing for marine 2-cycle oil. Maybe someday there will be.

Thanks to all.

A very interesting oil test, not completely OT but close.
http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/oiltest.htm

Oil certification program.
http://www.nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/

 

[bootle]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

How can this be an oil thread with any sort of validity without LubeDude?

I miss the Oil Doc too.

Seriously, if the oil has the rating required for your outboard, thats the oil that you should be using, brand name is and should be secondary, its like saying that Chevron regular gas is better than Exxon regular gas, which is better than Shell regular gas that is better than Chevron regular gas.
And the beat goes on....

 

[mthieme]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

Funny, I use Wally World oil in everything but my outboards (Quicksilver).
Everything being 1 truck, 1 car, 3 garden tractors, 2 farmall Cubs, 1 weed whacker, 2 chainsaws and all previous gasoline engine vehicles and do-dads.
No problems and hundreds of thousands of miles later.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

Funny, I use Wally World oil in everything but my outboards (Quicksilver).
Everything being 1 truck, 1 car, 3 garden tractors, 2 farmall Cubs, 1 weed whacker, 2 chainsaws and all previous gasoline engine vehicles and do-dads.
No problems and hundreds of thousands of miles later.

Could be time to put it in the outboards as well !!!!

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

Where is Lubedude and The Oil Doc when you need them???

I miss the Oil Doc too.

I pop in once in a while...usually just for a laugh from this site's resident Amsoil pimp. I could spend forever and a day addressing his misinformation and garbage, but I'm back to actually testing and certifying oils, so I don't have the time I used to. See ya round.

 

[mthieme]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

Could be time to put it in the outboards as well !!!!

Maybe some day.
I'm still getting QS HD at $10 a gallon.
I'll tell what got me hooked though.
2001 I bought a new O/B for one of my hydros.
The guy saw a quart of cheap unbranded oil in my p/u.
He said I just spent all that money on a new motor and to do myself a favor and use the Mercury oil. He offered it to me dirt cheap if I brought in my own container(s). It's been working for me every since.
I would use the QS in everything else, but I'm always afraid my supply line will dry up.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

I pop in once in a while...usually just for a laugh from this site's resident Amsoil pimp. I could spend forever and a day addressing his misinformation and garbage, but I'm back to actually testing and certifying oils, so I don't have the time I used to. See ya round.

Again we have a visit from the oil messiah, resident Personal basher, name caller with no information on the topic at hand. Why don't you just crawl back inder the rock you came out from under! We have need of your expertise, but not your constant sarcasm!

 

[bootle]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

Gee LD, you musta had a bad day bassin
It appears that the Oil Doc has a tiny gravel in his shoe.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

In the last year, I have used both Penzoil Synthetic Blend and Super Tech in my 115 Johnny, both smoked and smelled the exact same.

Last fall I got a deal on 4 gallons of Yamalube, all 4 for $30. ALL Yamaha guys swear by this stuff, my friend had his Yami OX66 rebuilt and the Yami tech said never to use anything but Yamalube. I only used it because I got the deal on it. Maybe DI Yami's need it who knows?

I've been running it since July and I notice NO difference in smoke or smell at all, between the Yamalube or any others.

Once it's gone, which will be soon, I will look around for another deal somewhere, but I will go back to using the ST if I can't find any other deals.

If you decarb regularly you will be fine. I don't believe there is a difference in lubrication. All you need for lubrication is TC-W3. Any claim that it "exceeds" TC-W3, seems pointless to me. Why would you need to exceed what it needs, it needs a certain protection and anything over that does no good.

Same as people thinking 93 Octane gas is "better" or cleaner" for your engine. If it is designed to run optimal on 87 Octane, then ALL it needs it 87 Octane. 93 is just wasting money for something your not getting anyway, in fact in that case it may be worse.

Same as if your engine requires 50:1 mixture, mixing it at 40:1 isn't doing any good, more oil isn't giving any better protection.

Just my opinion though.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

I don't believe there is a difference in lubrication. All you need for lubrication is TC-W3. Any claim that it "exceeds" TC-W3, seems pointless to me. Why would you need to exceed what it needs, it needs a certain protection and anything over that does no good.

My opinion of the TC-W3 test is about this!

Ya, it's slick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It could be a "Lot" better test! I doubt that if you tested a straight 30 weight car oil mixed 50:1 that it would fail!

If I can use a better oil I will every time.

JMHO which dosen't mean much!!!!

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

When it comes to using a better oil, which every body would like to do, the problem is in knowing which one is the ?better? oil.

Many things you can test on your own and find the best product for the intended use. Tools, engines, props, lures, fishing rods, rope, beer, etc, the problem with oil is there's no way for common folk to know which one works better than another one. The only way to find out would be to have twin engines on the back of your boat and run different oil in each one, then after many years of use tear them down and inspect each one. This would only work if you had several engines to do this with, because any two off the production line may not wear at the same rate even with the same oil.

All of this would be very long term testing, with anecdotal at best, results.

In all the oil threads that I won?t admit to having read, everybody, even the experts say ?use a good oil?, but they can never really say, or at least don?t say, which ones are the ?better? ones. Everyone says ?I use this oil and have never had any oil related problems?, this only means these motors didn?t get used long enough to wear out and not that many of them do just wear out, it?s other things that do them in.

There are a few tests you find that claim to show this oil is better than that one, but these tests are little more than a cheap trick that has nothing to do with how the oil will work inside an engine.

Higher cost means little, claims prove nothing, independent lab testing would mean something, but I?ve never seen any where I was confident in it?s accuracy.

So from the experts, where?s the proof of which one(s) is better.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Walmart Supertech 2 Cycle Oil

So from the experts, where?s the proof of which one(s) is better.

Oil discussions are more "Just for the fun of it" than anything else! You just can't buy an outboard oil with the TC-W3 rating that will harm your engine in any way!

Use a synthetic if you want less smoking and if you run the engine hard, or troll and you are having trouble with fouling plugs!

As to "Which ones better" All I can say to that is that there may be a "Best outboard oil" But it would take a conciderable amount of testing for a lot of years. Also the oils would have to be tested on nearly ever outboard out there which is just not posable! Some oil may actually be better than others in different engines. Also it makes a big difference as to how the engines are used. You can get away with a 2 cycle racing oil if all you do is race or run WOT for a great percentage of time. Honestly, the WalMart oil with a decarb once a year will do 75% of most boaters as they do not run there engines hard most of the time nor use there boats all that much.

Is this info scientific? Hardly but it does make sence!