Transom rebuild of a Fletcher 170 Bravo

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May 14, 2015
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I am rebuilding my transom. After reading almost evry article/book about making a new transom i dont know how exactly i will do it. I need 30mm thickness. Should i take one piece of 30 mm plywood or a combination of 18mm and 12 mm glued toghether with a mat or peanut butter on polyester base ? I want to use polyester because i want gelcoat to stick on it and i will treat the wood with G4 (this primer even let polyester stick on epoxy).
Pictures on my Fletcher page.
 

alldodge

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I am rebuilding my transom. After reading almost evry article/book about making a new transom i dont know how exactly i will do it. I need 30mm thickness. Should i take one piece of 30 mm plywood or a combination of 18mm and 12 mm glued toghether with a mat or peanut butter on polyester base ? I want to use polyester because i want gelcoat to stick on it and i will treat the wood with G4 (this primer even let polyester stick on epoxy).
Pictures on my Fletcher page.

:welcome: to iboats Kenneth

Most transoms are in the 50mm (2 in) range which includes glass and gelcoat. For Merc I/O it is 50 to 57mm. I think your boat may have an outboard and thickness may be as you say but thicker is better IMO. With that, I would use two layers of plywood with a layer of CSM and resin. To bond the wood to the hull I would suggest something like core bond.

Polyester and Vinylester are not bonding agents and Poly will not bond to old Poly, it will stick but not hold over time. I would suggest using epoxy resin. Gelcoat will bond to all three types of resin
 

Woodonglass

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Welcome to iBoats!

30mm seems a bit thin to me. 38-40 would be the norm. (1.5") for Outboard Motors here in the USA. You might find some interest in this...Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms. Make sure and note the Clickable link (It's the letters PB highlighted in Blue) within the article for how to make the Peanut Butter Glue that is talked about. I have to disagree with All Dodge about Polyester and Vinylester not bonding to old poly. If you grind your old glass down to good fresh glass and clean it well with acetone before applying the new polyester or vinylester glass, you will achieve a very good bond that will last for as long as you have the boat. I do agree that epoxy has better adhesive qualities but... for what you are doing with your boat restoration you can and will achieve great results using either poly or vinylester resins. No worries with either of them. Thousands of successful restorations with no documented structural failures over decades of use have proven this to be the case.
 
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gm280

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I have to say that I used polyester mixed into PB (Peanut Butter) to "glue" my new transom to the existing outside transom skin. And I guarantee you, you will not get that transom back off the hull without grinding it off. There is no other way to remove it now! So YES polyester will most certainly bond, glue, adhere to fiberglass that is properly prepared. And that proof is displayed on these forums everywhere. My PB mixture is basically like most others' recipe as well. Polyester, MEKP, Cabisol, and 1/4" milled fiberglass. The actual ratio is whatever you like the consistency to be, no real certain mixing ratios. I have found out that I like to mix the poly with a 1% MEKP mixture and after thoroughly mixing that up, I add the Cabisol next and mix that until I get a peanut butter consistency. And I noticed that it usually takes about the exact same amount of cabisol by volume that the poly resin is. In other words if I mix 500ml of poly, I use 5ml of MEKP and 500ml (by volume) Cabisol and then apply the 1/4" milled fiberglass until I see a good fiber mixture. But most any other ratios will work as well. But once this cures, you will not separate them again... JMHO!
 
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Thank you all for replying ! Where i live, people know nothing about boats, but they know a lot about chemistry.
Here is a "paste" of the primer i will use, invented en produced in Belgium. It may be useful to a lot of you boat rebuilders.
Also a PDF of the resin in attachement.
​With this i am pretty damn sure it will bond.

The transom core was only 30 mm plywood, but there is still the laminate of the "cover/deck" of the boat, and if i go thicker i cant put the "cover/deck" deck back.
And the two top screws are trough the deck laminate, the laminated plywood and the outer skin, i can make or buy an metal plate to put the two bottom bolts in.



Under here i put a copy paste of the product info: [h=2]Vosschemie / Boat Care / Paint System G4-extra / 0,5 liters - Bundle[/h]
[h=2]Description[/h] YC - G4 is a solvent-based one-component polyurethane resin for the specific use on boats. After curing produces a wear-resistant film with high impact strength and good resistance to weathering. YC - G4 is not UV stable and will receive exposure to UV yellowing.
[h=2]Application[/h] Component polyurethane primer is applied to the clean plaster hardens by chemical reaction with the humidity - thus forming a blocking reason.
Adheres to wood, concrete and screed. Rays or grind metal surfaces. Can be applied to damp surfaces. Do not use on bituminous surfaces!

Subsequent coats of binder or resin color (after 2-4 hrs.).
As Holzvers YC-G4 is a very durable paint for dark wood (eg mahogany) - light woods are tinted slightly yellow.
As a primer for epoxy and polyester coatings and laminates to wood, steel and fiberglass surfaces.
As binders for wood flour for filling cracks and wind bursts in woods.

Permanently seal rotten wood:
G4 is a one-component polyurethane sealant. Rotten wood can be solidified and verottetes permanently by impregnation with G4. Single holes in the corresponding pieces of wood drill, put the funnel and pour G4. G4 soaks into the wood surface and hardens independently. The timber can be loaded again.

NOT for use indoors (cabin) is suitable.
Floors seal:
Older concrete and screed floors are prone to wear and at the same time to dust. Built on an open-pored concrete floor impurities eg liquids, gasoline or fine powder, so you can not sweep this easily, because there always remain residues in these pores. Many technical equipment and tools should also be free of dust placed or stored.

Sealed to these surfaces with an abrasion-resistant, water-resistant, durable, yet easy and fast system to be applied, it has solved many problems at once. You get a seamless and seamless surface that can be easily cleaned with a steam cleaner.
These coating systems are successfully applied in industrial halls, workshops, farm barn area, garages and hobby rooms. Due to the different colors you can say the drab gray concrete "Adieu" and set an optical touch of color.
Adhesion promoter and blocking reason to open pore, cementitious screeds and schlemmfreien soils for subsequent ESTOVOSS coating.
[h=2]Characteristics[/h] Yield: about 100 ml / m? for non-absorbent substrates
approximately 200 -250 ml / m? for absorbent surfaces

Ideal for permanent shine finish plywood surfaces.
Also for the surface improvement of epoxy laminates for better UV resistance.

Consumption 0.2 l / m2 Yield approximately 200 ml / m?

Thinner: Vosschemie PU Thinner
 

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Woodonglass

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Ok, the Scott Bader Resin is just a Polyester Based Laminating resin like we use here in the states. You precoat the plywood with it and then lay down the Chopped strand mat and Fiberglass Fabric just like any other Glass layup. The G4 from what my research shows is a 2 part polyester based paint system that you would apply after the transom is installed and the fiberglass is layed up. To me, it's and either or situation. Either you will use the laminating resin and CSM and Fabric and then Gel Coat OR you will use the Laminating Resin and CSM and Fabric and then Paint with the G4. I see no reason to use the G4 and then Gel Coat.:confused:
 
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Ok, the Scott Bader Resin is just a Polyester Based Laminating resin like we use here in the states. You precoat the plywood with it and then lay down the Chopped strand mat and Fiberglass Fabric just like any other Glass layup. The G4 from what my research shows is a 2 part polyester based paint system that you would apply after the transom is installed and the fiberglass is layed up. To me, it's and either or situation. Either you will use the laminating resin and CSM and Fabric and then Gel Coat OR you will use the Laminating Resin and CSM and Fabric and then Paint with the G4. I see no reason to use the G4 and then Gel Coat.:confused:


My plan is :(correct me if i'm wrong please)
- Cut out the transom of a 30mm okoum? plywood.
- Impregnate the plywood with G4 (it is one component and dry's in the air)
- Put a layer of glass (CSM 300g/m?) on the full plywood.
- Sand en clean the outer skin with aceton, and apply G4 for extra bondage.
- Make peanut butter with polyester resin, chopped glass particles 4,5 mm, and of corse the hardener and apply a layer on the transom
- Put the transom in place.
- Then squeeze it toghether with large pieces of wood and a threaded rod's with bolts and washers.

And i am desperately searching for a company who can make gelcoat by sample impossible in Belgium...
The gelcoat on the transom is to much damaged.
Will a new layer of gelcoat stick on an old thin sanded and cleaned layer of gelcoat ?

Thank you for helping me !
 

Woodonglass

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Ok, I was looking at the WRONG product. I gotcha now...

Interesting stuff.

YC ? G 4 PRIMER FOR WOOD
01/06
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]POLYURETHANE SEALER [/FONT][/FONT]
November 2006
CHARACTERISTICS
YC-G4 is a one component polyurethane resin that contains solvents. It has been specially developed for application on boats. It is applied in thin coatings, hardens by the release of solvents and cross links with the moisture in the air. It has a highly abrasion resistant gloss surface. YC-G4 has a browny translucent colour and is not resistant to UV light, it will yellow over a period of time when exposed to sunlight. YC-G4 has excellent adhesion to wood and metal provided the surface is grease and oil free, clean, porous and dry. Metal surfaces should be thoroughly sanded. YC-G4 cannot be applied to bitumen or other coatings that are not solvent resistant. For total chemical resistance it should be allowed to harden for at least 7 days at 20?C and 75 % air humidity. It is chemically resistant to low concentrations of acids and alkalis and water at room temperature. YC-G4 can be pigmented with the addition of max. 5 % of YC-PU PIGMENT PASTE, however, this is only recommended for special applications. The addition of pigment will reduce the mechanical strength as well as the working time and it will increase the rate of yellowing.
AREA OF APPLICATION
Applied as a sealer for wood YC-G4 is a very tough coating for hard woods (e.g. mahagony). It will have a yellowing effect on light woods.
YC-G4 can be applied to wood and metal surfaces as an adhesion primer for epoxy and polyester (GRP) coatings.
YC-G4 can be used as a binder for wood flour for repairing splits and holes in wood.
YC-G4 is not suitable for inside areas (e.g. cabins).

I think after the G4 is applied and cured you would follow standard installation procedures. No extra G4 needed.

Mix up some PB using the Scott Bader Resin and some Chopped strand and some cabosil and clamp the Transom to the Skin and then fillet the edges with the squeeze out. Then apply a full layer of CSM and then follow with a full layer of Fabric. I'd use the Scott Bader Resin for all the rest of the work. Take a look at this...
Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms.

This member did a great transom install...http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat-...e9#post8512409
 
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One day on the forum and almost all of my questions are answered ! Thank you all !
The member did indeed a good job !
 
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Today i sanded the transom area to prepare for the transom placement, my arms feel like i fel in a cactus ...
I also bought the 30 mm okoum?.
But i cant' find cabosil here in Belgium, but i found other products on the webshop:
- Microdol
- Stewathix
- Microballoons white / red.
- Cotton fiber.
Wich one is like Cabosil ?

Greetings
 

Mark72233

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Ken, I don't know if any of those is similar to Cabisol but also look for fumed silica or Aerosil. Those are other names for Cabisol.
 

Woodonglass

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My research tells me the Stewathix is an Aerosil-like product so I'd go with that!!;)
 
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This weekend final sanding and making the mould in 3mm hardboard, and hopefully saw the transom plywood ! Polyester, cabosil and a whole lot more are on their way ! Exited !
 

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Does anyone know how thick a layer of csm 300g with polyester resin is ? I need to know this to cut out the transom a bit smaller.
Greetings,

Kenneth
 
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Do i have to sand the plywood wrapped in a 300gr csm if i "glue" it on the transom skin after a few days after i wrapped it ?
 
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Finally i "glued" the transom in the boat and i am happy with the result ! (see picture)
Now i need to make the outside of the transom as flat as a mirror.
Can i do this with peanut butter ? Sand off the gelcoat and clean with aceton and then a layer of peanut butter ? (see picture)
After flattening the transom i will gelcoat it and put the drainplug in, then i can glass the transom from the inside.

Greetings,

Kenneth
 

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