Table Saw Surface Treatment Fail

sschefer

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Re: Table Saw Surface Treatment Fail

I own a small custom mill work shop where we have 5 cast iron top table saws and various other cast iron tops. These above 3 products all work well.
We use 0000 steel wool and paste wax also. A tip for the wax... wax it then throw some saw dust on it and buff with a clean cloth. Slick as snot.

I have a General 12" cabinet saw and a 10" contractors. I also sold these, Delta, Jet, Powermatic and Saw Stop in another life. None of the spray on stuff is worth a darn so don't waste your money. Just clean it with Acetone, then use a thin coat of Johnson's paste wax. Do it periodically as regular maintenance even if your not using the saw. If its rusty, use your random orbital sander with some 220 paper to clean it up. The better the saw the fewer problems because the cast iron is seasoned better. If you are running a bunch of exotic wood I recommend you clean the top with Acetone and 0000 steel wool first, make your cuts and then wax it again.This will help to prevent contamination of the wood and finsihing problems down the road. Wood will slide on the bare clean steel better than over wax, the wax is just to keep the corrosion in check.
 

Alwhite00

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Re: Table Saw Surface Treatment Fail

I always try to keep a little sawdust on the table and it seems to work fine. On a side note - I was at sears and they have a table saw with a granite top - that would be great, No rust and slick as can be.

LK
 

joewithaboat

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Re: Table Saw Surface Treatment Fail

I have a General 12" cabinet saw and a 10" contractors. I also sold these, Delta, Jet, Powermatic and Saw Stop in another life. None of the spray on stuff is worth a darn so don't waste your money. Just clean it with Acetone, then use a thin coat of Johnson's paste wax. Do it periodically as regular maintenance even if your not using the saw. If its rusty, use your random orbital sander with some 220 paper to clean it up. The better the saw the fewer problems because the cast iron is seasoned better. If you are running a bunch of exotic wood I recommend you clean the top with Acetone and 0000 steel wool first, make your cuts and then wax it again.This will help to prevent contamination of the wood and finsihing problems down the road. Wood will slide on the bare clean steel better than over wax, the wax is just to keep the corrosion in check.

I couldn't disagree with you more as far as those products not working. I own and use all of the brands you sold and more. I have used them for 12 years in my own shop, my Fathers before mine. We have run 10's of thousands of board feet of material and 10's of thousands of sheets of plywood over the saws and other tools. When business was booming I bought them in 6 pack cases frequently as they work very quickly. The only downside is they cost much more than paste wax. These days business is slower and the budget is smaller so we use the cheap paste wax, it takes 3x longer to use.

As to cleaning the top with solvent... i wouldn't do that unless you needed to clean up a spill of some sort. The cast iron tops are of course porous and build a patina that takes less and less time to keep slick if you don't strip them. They also are much less apt to rust from sweat drips in the summer if they have a good patina. Some of the equipment has smooth steel, aluminum or phenolic which is never as slick but it helps a great deal to coat them as well. "Slip-it", i think it is called, seems to work best on the phenolic. Some of my more expensive equipment has a textured/rippled cut to the cast iron. People mistake it for poor machining, it is done on purpose, it actually helps the wood glide across it and it almost never needs attention.

If rusty, they make great consumer stuff sold in kits. They are a little pricey but get the job done and keep you from buying larger quantities of product you will probably never use more than once. Woodcraft sells "Top Saver" which works well.
I would never suggest someone use a sander on a machined top. An inexperienced hand, even with 220 grit, could do a lot of damage.
 

Tim Frank

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Re: Table Saw Surface Treatment Fail

None of the spray on stuff is worth a darn so don't waste your money.

I've used these products with great results, so completely disagree.
Taking a power abrasive tool to a table top risks dimensioning the surface....not advice that I would expect from someone who claims to have an understanding of the topic. :facepalm:
Yeah....even with 220x....
 

Tim Frank

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Re: Table Saw Surface Treatment Fail

Some of my more expensive equipment has a textured/rippled cut to the cast iron. People mistake it for poor machining, it is done on purpose, it actually helps the wood glide across it and it almost never needs attention.

Hand-scraping is almost a lost art....
You know your stuff!! :D
 

joewithaboat

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Re: Table Saw Surface Treatment Fail

Hand-scraping is almost a lost art....
You know your stuff!! :D

Thanks Tim... I don't know a ton about the different cast iron finishes except to recognize that they are different.
My equipment is not old enough to have any hand scraped cast iron. I'm pretty sure here in the States even Oliver and Northfield had all gone to Blanchard Grinding. There are a handful of European tool makers still planing and shaping cast iron.

The tools of mine that have the nicer tops come out of Italy. They have a rotary looking tiger strip that has about a 1/16 inch wide peak and a 3/16 wide valley. The cast iron also has a slight grainy texture to it. It is slick as can be and the power feeders really like it.
 

captain zac

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Oct 15, 2007
Messages
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Re: Table Saw Surface Treatment Fail

I agree with Joe
Steel wool and paste wax that is what I use

But if your surface is not used alot and it is moisture in your area then you might have some
rust on the surface.
In that case I would use Naval jelly first then steel wool then wax

In all woodworking preperation is the most important thing

Harry
 

sschefer

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Re: Table Saw Surface Treatment Fail

Joe and Tim, disagreeing with me is fine, I have no objection to that. I work with a lot of expensive exotic woods and I'm not willing to risk contamination with silicone or oils. I probably should have said to use those products if you wish but if you start having problems with your finishing process, you might want to consider my methods. I sold them all and tried them all and never found any of them that performed better than the methods I described. If your in a high production cabinet shop where time is money I'd probably use Boeshield, because of all of them it was the one I liked the best. Oxygen Phosphate is the probably the best at converting the rust but nobody wants a black looking cast iron top even though it's probably the best choice for maintaining flatness.

You guy's know that a flat top, perfectly aligned arbor and the best fence money can buy are the keys to straight cuts and spending less time at the jointer.
 

levittownnick

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Re: Table Saw Surface Treatment Fail

First and most importantly, I thank all those that replied.
I appreciate all the advise and information and please know that you have helped.

Thank you,
Nick
 

joewithaboat

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Re: Table Saw Surface Treatment Fail

Joe and Tim, disagreeing with me is fine, I have no objection to that. I work with a lot of expensive exotic woods and I'm not willing to risk contamination with silicone or oils. I probably should have said to use those products if you wish but if you start having problems with your finishing process, you might want to consider my methods. I sold them all and tried them all and never found any of them that performed better than the methods I described. If your in a high production cabinet shop where time is money I'd probably use Boeshield, because of all of them it was the one I liked the best. Oxygen Phosphate is the probably the best at converting the rust but nobody wants a black looking cast iron top even though it's probably the best choice for maintaining flatness.

You guy's know that a flat top, perfectly aligned arbor and the best fence money can buy are the keys to straight cuts and spending less time at the jointer.

Steve,

It is not a matter of disagreeing with you.. you are simply stating something about three products that is not true. They are made specifically to use around wood and should not affect finishing. We finish some but not all of our Millwork products and have never had finish issues from these products.

You forgot the most important thing about a good cut... The blade!! I generally consider Forrest to be the best overall winner there. The older Delta industrial's are good as well.

Exotic woods...Don't use them too much, We do a Burmese Teak job once in a while, usually countertops. Other than that Genuine & African mahogany, Black American Walnut, reclaimed Chestnut, Texas mesquite, Spanish Cedar is about as exotic as it gets.

Oh and My shop is not a "high production cabinet shop" but rather a "custom millwork" shop. We do build quite a bit of cabinets but they are the type that the production shops can't do.

Please see below info.

- Boeshield T-9? contains no Silicone or Teflon. Instead it has a paraffin wax base which provides better lubrication and protection without interfering with subsequent finishes.
http://boeshield.com/faq/

- empire top saver ....contains no silicone's and have no staining or other ill effects on finishing
http://www.amazon.com/Empire-Manufacturing-TSS-8D-Complete-TopSaver/dp/B0000EI96N

- Bostik topcoat Contains no silicone or petroleum oil. Will not stainwood or interfere with glues or finishes.
http://www.bostik-us.com/sites/default/files/TopCote.pdf
 

Tim Frank

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Re: Table Saw Surface Treatment Fail

Steve,

You forgot the most important thing about a good cut... The blade!! I generally consider Forrest to be the best overall winner there. The older Delta industrial's are good as well.

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.....a PROPERLY SHARPENED blade....;)
I like Dimar's
 
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