Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

[Rake722]

Hi all, the darn engine is a revelation.

It. I got totally stoked that I ran her up and she maintained temp on muffs for 30 minutes and I thought we'd cracked it.

I was about to maiden her and I did my engine checks only to find white oil.

I then did compression - 135 all pots.

Must be the riser / manifold so stripped it out and took the whole thing off in one piece including the tstat housing and expansion tank.

now here comes the problem - in the UK a new manifold alone is over 1300 USD.

Can anyone please reccomend a remanufactured / aftermarket or any alternative but cheaper route to repair ? Its both riser and manifold I need.

1977 Serial range 677****

Many thanks in advance.

Ron.

 

[Don S]

Re: Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

What do you have in your oil? Water or antifreeze?

Did you see something wrong with the manifold?????

How much water in the oil are you seeing? Does the oil level raise or just enough to make it milky? How about the cam shaft seal? If you have antifreeze in the oil, that is a known issue with 470's

 

[Rake722]

Re: Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

Hi Don, thanks for the reply.

The closed cooling side has leaked into pot 4 for sure.

Plug wet. Port Wet. Manifold full of water.

I took off the whole assembly but have not yet stripped off the elbow / riser to inspect it.

The oil was fully emulsified and I lost a litre or so of coolant not raw water.

Weep hole clear and not leaking.

Cant tell about oil level but definatly lost coolant as I filled it the other day and today the expansion tank or header was empty and took a litre to fill it.

All the oil I drianed is emulsified - not a drop of clear oil in the engine.

Please help !

 

[Don S]

Re: Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

Sounds a lot like a blown head gasket for one, plus a failed gasket on the cam and then you have the manifold/riser issue.

Manifold full of water.

Assuming this is the exhaust manifold, if it's full of "Water" and not antifreeze in the exhaust side of the manifold and not the AF passages, then you have issues with the gasket between the riser and manifold or the riser itself. If it was manifold side you would have antifreeze in the exhaust passage. Water comes from the riser.

 

[Rake722]

Re: Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

Hi Don,

Thanks for the reply but surely if compression is ok on all 4 then not a head gasket ?

Anyhows the local engineer looked at the assembly in my van and decalred the riser and manifold
finished, he had his finger in the exhaust port and it looked like antifreeze as opposed to just water.

When I pulled the drain plug from the manifold it was antifreeze. There was pipe or plug on the HE that was just water not antifreeze but I cant remember which one. I am just so tired and disappointed.

Looks like all the things people say about these motors is happening at once.

Anyway, to the diagnosis - if it were the cam seals would I not get the coolant from the weep hole ?

Assuming it is both riser and manifold - where to get another one here in the UK or shipped to the UK if I did find one ?
Do they do remanufactured ? Aftermarket ?

Either way if water or antifreeze in the manifold, I need to split the riser off and chances of it going back toghether again I beleive to be slim due to corrosion - net result - need them anyway now unless I am missing something or am very very lucky...

 

[Eric 3.7LX Alpha 1]

Re: Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

Here are 2-places you can try:

http://bpi.ebasicpower.com/mm5/merc...&Product_Code=HGE8561&NOSHOW=YES&rnum=OSC8561

^^ they will ship to you but will not be cheap, looks like they have original and aftermarket, maybe cheaper than you are seeing

http://breezeworks.net/
They are a special site only for the 470, I don't know if they would ship overseas, but don't see why knot if they use an international shipper like UPS.

 

[Rake722]

Re: Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

Thanks Eric.
I read that these aluminium ones don't fit the older gen1 engines.

These don't have the header tank up front so not sure of their compatibility

 

[Eric 3.7LX Alpha 1]

Re: Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

From what I've read which may or may not be true, they will work as long as the exhaust elbow is also replaced with it.

 

[achris]

Re: Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

Man, I feel for you. I know what it's like to think you have sorted it all out only to be kicked in the plums... I'm still sitting on my hands hoping my problem is finally solved (3 years and the engine out and back in no less than 10 times).

Hang in there, we're all here to help you as best as we can...

Chris.....

 

[RHETTDAWG]

Re: Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

I am kinda new to this I/O stuff, but I caused myself problems with my 3.7L by using too much water pressure on my muffs when i was flushing and forced water into #4 exhaust port. I had to replace a piston and treat my cylinder from the scuffing it took with rust. hard lesson.

 

[Don S]

Re: Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

I am kinda new to this I/O stuff, but I caused myself problems with my 3.7L by using too much water pressure on my muffs when i was flushing and forced water into #4 exhaust port. I had to replace a piston and treat my cylinder from the scuffing it took with rust. hard lesson.

I'm Sorry, but that just can't happen ....................... That might be what you think happened, but that is not what actually happened.

 

[RHETTDAWG]

Re: Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

it will happen if you shut down the motor then go over and shut off the water, when it is turned up too high. it sprays everywhere inside the elbow. I now kill the water before i shut down, use less water pressure, (per Mercury tech) and my problem is gone. Sorry to insult or argue with you, but yes.......it is possible. Thought this was a friendly site.

 

[Don S]

Re: Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

It is a friendly site, but what you are saying just can't happen unless you get water to defy gravity. Look at how the elbow is set up. The water goes up and out the elbow into the exhaust tube. What you are proposing is that the hose pressure on muffs pushes past the impeller in the drive that is not turning, and going through the system, to the top of the elbow, drops down past the exhaust end of the elbow and turns and goes uphill into the exhaust port and into the cylinder. Is that correct?

 

[jcbarry]

Re: Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

I am currently working an a 470 with the same issue, water in #4 cylinder. The cause was the riser rotted out and was dumping water onto the #4 exhaust port. Maybe you have the same issue.

 

[achris]

Re: Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

it will happen if you shut down the motor then go over and shut off the water, when it is turned up too high. it sprays everywhere inside the elbow. I now kill the water before i shut down, use less water pressure, (per Mercury tech) and my problem is gone. Sorry to insult or argue with you, but yes.......it is possible. Thought this was a friendly site.

I'm sorry, but as a Merc tech of over 20 years, I agree completely with Don... You have something else going on there... Once the drive-shaft stops spinning the water pump impeller blades close off any possibility of water continuing up... And even if it did, the water should just run straight out of the elbow... I have run dozens of engines with the drive remove by just pushing a hose into the water passage in the bell housing and run the engine... I ALWAYS turn the water on first, run the engine, shut it down, THEN turn the water off... If I'm running an engine on a test stand, then the water hose gets pushed into the inlet hose to the thermostat housing and again turned on FIRST (and it just runs straight out of the exhaust).... I NEVER turn the water off on a running engine. That's the quickest way to cooking an impeller and all the ensuing damage that comes after that... I have NEVER, EVER had water enter the engine using that system...

If you can't leave the hose running with the engine not running without water entering a cylinder, then you have a problem that needs fixing (likely a corroded exhaust elbow)... Not masking...

Chris.......

 

[Rake722]

Re: Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

I am currently working an a 470 with the same issue, water in #4 cylinder. The cause was the riser rotted out and was dumping water onto the #4 exhaust port. Maybe you have the same issue.

Yep - Thats what I think too as pot 4 was wet in the port.

Now its gonna cost more than the hull is probably worth to fix it.

I found a second hander on craigslist but is it sensible to put something of the same age on again or buy new if I can ?

 

[RHETTDAWG]

Re: Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

yes, the fix was replace the rotted exhaust elbow and a damaged impeller. I said I was new to the I/O, I just bought it the end of last season and had these problems after two times out in the water. But thanks for all the vast corrections to an impossible to happen situation. no masking. thanks jcberry for knowing it could happen.

 

[achris]

Re: Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

yes, the fix was replace the rotted exhaust elbow and a damaged impeller. I said I was new to the I/O, I just bought it the end of last season and had these problems after two times out in the water. But thanks for all the vast corrections to an impossible to happen situation. no masking. thanks jcberry for knowing it could happen.

jcberry had a corroded elbow, and that's what caused his problem... With a good elbow in there the problem will have gone... He'll be able to run.... Ar.... What's the use.... You don't believe me anyway... You're new to I/Os and I've only been earning a living with them for 20 years and owned them for 30..... What do I know??!!! :facepalm:

 

[Rake722]

Re: Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

816219A4 - Find me one cheap boys !

Oh and one more thing - is adding a aluminium manifold to a cast iron head asking for trouble ?

Remember me ?

 

[achris]

Re: Seriously Peaved - 470 - pot 4 wet. Oil fully emulsified and me fully fed up.

816219A4 - Find me one cheap boys !

Oh and one more thing - is adding a aluminium manifold to a cast iron head asking for trouble ?

Remember me ?

Yeah, sorry about that... No problem with ali manifold on your iron head.... No direct water connections and the water isn't salt anyway... Another option is the 485 manifold... everything else the same (cam, carb...) just a better flowing exhaust, and 15 hp more ....

Chris......