Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

[wilde1j]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

I don't think you understand what the OMC manuals were like. My Dad was an OMC and Merc dealer for many years, and the OMC service manuals were a single book per model year covering all motors made that year and were huge (try 6 to 8" or more thick, requiring multiple volumes per model year). They were never produced as consumer documents, although I owned a number of them over the years. It was just the nature of the document. No one says you have to buy one. Just don't complain about the price.

As suggested, Ebay is an excellent alternative. I sold a Merc Black Max set on Ebay a few years ago when I repowered for ~ $35 for a rather large book set. Just takes a lot of patience to find what you need sometimes.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

All I ask in all fairness is for anyone to take a factory manual to a print shop and ask "How much to reproduce this manual exactly like this!" If you just photocopied it at a nickle a sheet the cost would be 40 bucks and you would have poor quality photographs and the manual would not be bound. Again, why would a company print and stock these old manuals if they couldn't make any money on them. Business isn't about giving away products.

 

[kyudizky]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

Agreed, but that doesn't address the fact that two manuals in consecutive years vary in price by 75%. I have not layed eyes on both manual, but i would bet there is not a 75% fewer pages in one than the other???? If your going to be fair, you have to get that quote from the print shop on the basis that your going to have them print several hundred, if not thousand copies of not only service manuals, but assesory parts catalogs, parts catalogs, owners manuals, for 4 or 5 different brands of motors; not just one copy of one manual, and i bet you get better than a nickel a page.
As we stated before, theres a lot more in the cost than just hard cost to print. But 75% more doesn't make sense. If I was comparing a 1950 manual to a 1998 manual, i can see the possibilities, but .....

Everyone is still missing the point. I am not saying that these manuals are substantial in info, size, and value. In my first post, I said I had paid $90 bucks for a manual originally without any fuss, cancelled order b/c i found out that my motor was a different year model. Then found out that the one i needed was $120 and the very next year manual was only $50. The all over the board pricing is what bothers me, making me think he is pricing totally arbitrarily.

Wildje, you have been perfectly happy and in agreement with the price of any product you have ever wanted?

 

[ezeke]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

Agreed, but that doesn't address the fact that two manuals in consecutive years vary in price by 75%. I have not layed eyes on both manual, but i would bet there is not a 75% fewer pages in one than the other???? If your going to be fair, you have to get that quote from the print shop on the basis that your going to have them print several hundred, if not thousand copies of not only service manuals, but assesory parts catalogs, parts catalogs, owners manuals, for 4 or 5 different brands of motors; not just one copy of one manual, and i bet you get better than a nickel a page.
As we stated before, theres a lot more in the cost than just hard cost to print. But 75% more doesn't make sense. If I was comparing a 1950 manual to a 1998 manual, i can see the possibilities, but .....

Everyone is still missing the point. I am not saying that these manuals are substantial in info, size, and value. In my first post, I said I had paid $90 bucks for a manual originally without any fuss, cancelled order b/c i found out that my motor was a different year model. Then found out that the one i needed was $120 and the very next year manual was only $50. The all over the board pricing is what bothers me, making me think he is pricing totally arbitrarily.

Wildje, you have been perfectly happy and in agreement with the price of any product you have ever wanted?

You are the one missing the point; some years had manuals for specific horsepower motors, some for ranges and some for all recreational models from 2HP to V6. You are comparing manuals that cover one or only a few HP models to a manual that covers a very wide range of models, and expecting the price to be similar.

 

[kyudizky]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

You are the one missing the point; You are comparing manuals that cover one or only a few HP models to a manual that covers a very wide range of models, and expecting the price to be similar.

Ezeke, the '85 manual part#507508, which is $70 bucks from Mr. Cook (75% below an '84 price) covers a range from 2HP to 235HP, so I'm pretty sure this is an apples to apples comparision. Who's missing the point?????

 

[jonesg]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

Business ethics does exist:
You use oil to lubricate your motor, without it your motor would be worthless. A new motor might cost $8K or so if you don't use it. You wouldn't think you were getting a bargain buying motor oil at 7K would you. You wouldn't pay 1k, but that would be a 7k savings. You have to have it, so you say they can charge that for it.
Mooring/Docking ropes vs. cost of new boat.......

same princinple, but would be highly unethical

Measuring business efficacy with an ethical yardstick is the wrong measure. You cannot weigh the objective by applying the subjective (opinion) ,doing so is the same as trying to weigh yourself with a thermometer, the world will not make sense to you.

Its all about supply and demand and nothing else.
In a free enterprise system KenCook can charge whatever they like.
Not what we like, what they like.

 

[ezeke]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

Ezeke, the '85 manual part #507508, which is $70 bucks from Mr. Cook (75% below an '84 price) covers a range from 2HP to 235HP, so I'm pretty sure this is an apples to apples comparision. Who's missing the point?????

I think the guy who started this thread was comaring a 1991 manual to a 1984 manual and is now being defensive.

 

[jennyo]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

bottom line is your a tight *** and maybe you should consider another hobby.
try golf and see what costs .

jennyo

 

[kyudizky]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

I understand copyright and respect them, but in no way does the copright have anything to do with the fact that an '84 manual is 75% or $50 highr than the same '85 manual. QUOTE]

Try again Ezeke, I must have said i was comparing "consecutive years" a dozen times. So no, I'm not defensive, no one has addressed the issue I asked about, well you did, but you spoke incorrectly, and came back with the defensive response.

Jones, I am not trying to measure Ken Cooks efficacy (thought that was a medical term anyway) at all. And really don't care if he's ethical at all, merely don't understand his pricing, why I have to give 75% more for than I do for what seams to be a very, very similiar manual only one year later. Everyone has a response, non of which explain my issue.

 

[kyudizky]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

Jennyo, glad you could join the discussion. I didn't realize that owning a boat was only for the affluent such as yourself. What other hobbies are only for those of such prestige so I can make sure I don't confuse myself and get involed with them either.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

Could be that they have a pallet full of the newer manual sitting in the warehouse when the older manual had to be re-printed, higher cost.

I can see your frustration, but the way I look at it you have 2 choices;

1- buy it
2- start scouring Ebay for a used one

 

[kyudizky]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

Fishrdan, thats more of what I was kinda looking for. I think, at least after stiring everyone up on this issue, Ill opt for option 2. Hopefully one will pop us soon.

thanks

 

[Boss Hawg]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

Keep thinking a Moderator will move this waste of cyberspace over to the beech moan 'n grown section

 

[jonesg]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

merely don't understand his pricing, why I have to give 75% more for than I do for what seams to be a very, very similiar manual only one year later. Everyone has a response, non of which explain my issue.

The reason for pricing differences doesn't matter.

When I had a bakery I charged different prices for 2 breads, both weighed 1 lb, when asked why I said I think the people who buy the expensive loaf, which weighs the same but is just a different shape, are a pain in the rear.

The answer made no sense, it didn't have to.

If you waste enough time and dig deep enough you find the reason, but the price doesn't change one penny. So it doesn't matter one iota.

http://www.audioenglish.net/dictionary/efficacy.htm

 

[dregsfan]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

The paper quality on used originals that you find on Ebay is not very good and will not hold up very long after 25 years.

Huh? I've been restoring cars and buying manuals for them since the 1960's. I have owned used original manuals as old as 1908. Original manuals will be around long after you and I are gone. There will be nothing wrong with a 25 year old manual that hasn't been water soaked or eaten by termites.

 

[billsnogo]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

I just picked mine up off evilbay for $40 and was used, but in good condition. That is half of what I could find new, and at a 50% savings, I could put up with a few smudged finger prints, and added a few of my own already

If your not in a rush, keep an eye out, if in a rush, the price for new can be worth it :redface:

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

Thus far, I think TD and curiousB have come the closest to hitting the key issue here.

How much it cost OMC originally to publish the manuals or what the mechanical cost of reproducing them now happens to be, really has nothing to do with what Ken Cook can charge for them. Notice that I said can, rather than needs to charge.

Whether Cook acquired a publishing right, a transfer or assignment of the original copyright (not "write"), or has some sort of a license agreement, is also somewhat irrelevant. The key factor is that he has the legal right, by some mechanism, to publish and distribute the manuals. As such, he is entitled to charge whatever the market will bear.

Is $120 for a relatively simple manual ethical? I guess that answer is dependant upon individual opinion. I think its too much, but if that was my only option in being able to efficiently and correctly service my outboard, I'd probably pay it. I also shake my head when I tow owner after owner of a two year old, $20,000 outboard back to the launch, because it won't run. The current cost of outboards just seems dumb to me, not to mention the lack of reliability and short service life of some of them.

Then again, as I write this post, I am sitting at my desk with two cameras and two lenses that cost me close to $5,000. If I were to send them off to Nikon to get them cleaned, my bill would be about $600. A sensor cleaning at the camera shop this afternoon, cost me $50 and took all of ten minutes. A UV filter and a polarizing filter cost me another $150. And then there is the $2,500 I have invested in studio strobes, stands, wireless transmitters, etc. I hate the prices, but I like photography and sell some of what I shoot, so I put up with it.

Sometimes, it just is what it is.

 

[lonemust]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

do what i did. go to your local libary find the manual covering ur engine copy the chapter for ur enginefor about 10cents a page and presto u have a manual for that engine punch 3 hole put in a binder and that way u dont have to look through all the other hp's to find yours it cost me $1.10 and and it covers 50-85hp from '58-'68 evin/gale/johnsons

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

Just what is a fair asking price for a OMC service, or parts manual? I must have a couple of pick-up loads, plus service bulletin's back to the early 60's.

 

[kyudizky]

Re: Manuals - Getting Raked Over the Coals!

lonemust, public libraries really have these OMC manuals???

R. Johnson, do you have happen to have this service manual that started this whole mess, for a '84 2hp-V6, it has a part # of 394607??