87 blackmax 175 help

[j_martin]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

You're wrong. No measurements are called for when running at anything above idle. Most of them are at cranking speed. Max (WOT) timing is set while cranking, with the throttle held at WOT and the engine prevented from firing.

 

[jigmister]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

glad I am wrong in this case.

 

[CharlieB]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

Here is the link to CDI's Troubleshooting Guide

http://issuu.com/cdielectronics/doc...t.xml&backgroundColor=000000&showFlipBtn=true

Either read it on-line or Right Click and 'Save As' to save the file

 

[jigmister]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

You're wrong. No measurements are called for when running at anything above idle. Most of them are at cranking speed. Max (WOT) timing is set while cranking, with the throttle held at WOT and the engine prevented from firing.

http://issuu.com/cdielectronics/doc...t.xml&backgroundColor=000000&showFlipBtn=true

what am I missing here? My problem falls under
"will not accelerate beyond 3000 4000 RPM" page 84

seems to me it wants the motor to reach those RPMS for a DVA reading.

LOST

 

[jigmister]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

no reponse hey Martin?

 

[jigmister]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

ohmed out stator per book. between red white and blue white I have OL.
other wires ohmed out good. Got to pulling it out after that and found that the 2 yellow wires that connect from stator to the rectifier were getting hot.
the insulation on them is brittle and burnt through out their entire lenghts.

ordered stator and rectifier. not sure how long the old rectifier will last with the conditon of the stator wires to it.

will update progress

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

I see ..I think you are talking about the stator test right?? run it up to the RPM where the problem occurs and look for a sharp drop in stator voltage?? that test would have to be done on the water..What are the test results so far??? the bad regulator can burn up your stator..but sometimes it survives..what voltage is your stator cranking or at idle?? also did you do the idle stabilizer test..my uncle has that same motor had that problem last summer. why did they ever put that stupid thing on the motor to begin with??

 

[jigmister]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

DVA not here yet. stator failed the ohm test.
I am going with it as bad. I understand the DVA is a better way to test the stator if you have a dyno to hook your prop shaft too. or you can lay on the deck at 60MPH. (not me)
however, I have to think that because my stator FAILED the ohm test it is bad.
Had it PASSED the ohm I would think there may still be a problem that the DVA adapter would find.
DVA adapter is still getting its ride to me.

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

now you can keep the boat on your trailer and rev it up some..i have done that before..I also have a buddy drive while I check my timing at WOT...you can get a 4' length of wire to extend your leads if you need to. but most test can be done without that. if stator is bad it will probably show up at idle/cranking

 

[j_martin]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

no reponse hey Martin?

Am I your personal on call consultant?

Anyway, I'm here.

To answer your question, if the symptoms are fail above the cutover speed, stator tests will show a fault, either through the ohms test or dva test of the high voltage charge coils at cranking speed. You don't test at high speed. The combination of observed behavior and high speed charge coil testing confirms the diagnosis.

You've found it. Also check out the rectifier. It might be bad, and overheated the stator causing it's failure. If the rectifier is good, maybe you are overloading it. One way to do that is use an AGM battery, which has an almost unlimited acceptance rate. On a rectifier system you must use ventilated battery as it will boil off electrolyte and need service.

 

[jigmister]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

Am I your personal on call consultat?.

nope not at all. You said I was wrong. According to CDI a stator check requires 3,000 to 4,000 rpms.
Wondering how I am wrong. Even still. appears I need a dyno or water.

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

A CDI stator test does not require 3000-4000 RPMs (which can be gotten to on the trailer in the boat ramp), unless you are having a stator that drops out at those RPMs. It appears that your stator and rectifier/regulator is bad..but you are still kinda just guessing, with out the proper tools...If your engine is running fine up to 3000-4000 RPMs then it cuts out..you may have a stator that needs to be tested at the high RPMs..but chances are you can troubleshoot your motor with out the high RPMs.

 

[jigmister]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

the first sign of trouble was it would not get up on pad. sounded find, no missing or any thing like that.
now it gets on pad but takes minutes. and will not run more than about 3500 4000 rpm.
idle is perfect in N
perfect in gear. you would think everything is fine till you put the hammer down
I can troll for stripers all day. hahaah

 

[j_martin]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

Like I said, that set of symptoms, coupled with an open high speed charge coil, and you have your diagnosis, without a high speed meter run.

Usually if a stator meters out good, and still seems to drop out at speed, the actual trouble will be loose mounting or bad top main bearing, allowing contact between the flywheel and the stator, effectively (magnetically) shorting it. That's the bug that takes either a high speed run, or tearing off the flywheel and inspecting it carefully for signs of contact.

Just my 02. Take it or leave it.
John

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

I would also highly recommend testing the idle stabilizer..

 

[jigmister]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

thanks guys. I will have parts here in a week. I will post what happens.

thanks again

 

[j_martin]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

I would also highly recommend testing the idle stabilizer..

Or better yet, discard it.

 

[jigmister]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

just chuck the idle stabilizer? what do I loose by dicarding it?

DVA adapter showed up today. waiting for stator and rectifor yet.

trigger ohmed out bad......................................... not much I can do till the new stator shows up

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

just chunk it and adjust the timing per CDI instructions. you will lose nothing at all.....did you ever get that DVA adapter??

 

[j_martin]

Re: 87 blackmax 175 help

just chuck the idle stabilizer? what do I loose by dicarding it?

DVA adapter showed up today. waiting for stator and rectifor yet.

trigger ohmed out bad......................................... not much I can do till the new stator shows up

What the idle stabilizer does is sense when engine rpm's drops below a set point, I believe 600 rpm. If it sees that, it advances the timing a few degrees by puling on the bias.
1. Idle falling off is a basic tune problem to start with.
2. If the module fails and shorts the bias to ground, and you happen to be running hard, the next indication will be rod caps to the back of the head.

I find that it's not worth the risk to cover the mechanic's shortcomings with a bias trick, which might be why the module is NLA.