86 Sea Ray Restoration [Splashed Oct 2017]

[Goldie627]

Thank you all!!! I appreciate all of you!!!

TP - yeah its kinda wierd but i think im getting the hang of looking up parts

Rick - 1708 is so nice to work with, it really contours it self to complex / compound shapes nicely. I think i was just a lil over ambitious on that seat spacer layup
Plus as it wets out it stretches so that altered the amount of fabric that potentially gathered or grouped up after I flipped it over wet. It actually had contoured to the spacer like a dream when the cloth was dry. Another thing i could have done differently was to lay it up front to back instead of top to bottom. That way the air could have been easily pushed in that one direction. Im definitely going to be pressure testing this weekend! I called SEI today and you were spot on 106 with 1.94 gears

Saginaw - You're so right about taking things for granted and just going off the shops word.

Ja - Yep, this weekend i gotta start ordering some specialty tools, I need a hinge pin remover, engine alignment tool, gimbal bearing remover, I know theres more... I'll get a list going... I also need to make a list of parts... If i end up getting the SEI, im going to rebuild my alpha one gen 1, for the learning experience if nothing else

Supra - This weekend im gonna pressure test the outdrive, identify the leak, separate the upper from the lower, attempt to inspect the gears and shafts, etc... Im going to try to record as much as i can because Mark is going through the same situation I am. Hopefully some of the footage or parts/tools lists will be of some help. Im not sure how far ill get as i currently dont have any specaity tools for bearing removal and what not but atleast i'll get the ball rolling...

 

[Goldie627]

Outdrive Pressure Tester

 

[Goldie627]

 

[tpenfield]

Nice setup . . . I too used the valve stem of a bicycle tube and the fitting for my gear oil pump for my leak tester.

I sprayed soapy water around all the places where the seals were and just looked for the bubbles to form, rather than relying on the gauge to show leakage. I had to replace the drive shaft seal as well as the prop shaft seals.

Also, assuming that you empty the outdrive of gear oil when you test it, make sure to re-fill the outdrive with oil if you are going to leave it for a while (weeks) before working on it. I neglected to do this once and had a mess on my hands when I checked the outdrive later on.

 

[Speak]

Goldie my man!! Honestly, you can tackle the outdrive. Im a auto mechanic like Scott and Im having no problems with it. He has the training to understand what to do. Jump in, pressure test it, find the seal that is the problem and replace. Run it for a season and recheck it. Like you said, its not much to remove the drive off the boat.

save the 1000 bucks for something else. I say re seal it. Based on your current skills I say you can do it.

 

[Goldie627]

Nice setup . . . I too used the valve stem of a bicycle tube and the fitting for my gear oil pump for my leak tester.

I sprayed soapy water around all the places where the seals were and just looked for the bubbles to form, rather than relying on the gauge to show leakage. I had to replace the drive shaft seal as well as the prop shaft seals.

Also, assuming that you empty the outdrive of gear oil when you test it, make sure to re-fill the outdrive with oil if you are going to leave it for a while (weeks) before working on it. I neglected to do this once and had a mess on my hands when I checked the outdrive later on.

I must be blind as a bat... I don't see anywhere in the Manual (I'm referencing #6) where it talks about pressure or vacuum testing the outdrive. All of the info I"ve read here on the forum talks about how to make the pressure / vacuum tester but I cant find anything about how to actually use it.

What is an acceptable (psi) pressure loss per hour?

When you say you sprayed the seals do you mean that you sprayed the exterior of the outdrive before you separated the lower from the upper?

Or, if you dont mind, could you please give me the acceptable parameters for both pressure and vacuum tests?

Background: Shop said there was water in the gear oil. They told me they wouldnt pressure test it because its obvious that there is some kind of leak. They wanted $1000.00 for an upper and lower seal kit, water pump kit and base. I told them I would pick up the outdrive. I asked my brother Scott to pick up the drive for me because I could'nt make it to the shop that day. They told him the drive could'nt hold pressure.... really? wow.... thats not what they told me..... just makes you wonder...

Today at 1pm I started the pressure test. I sprayed soapy water everywhere on the exterior I thought it could leak. Within the first two hours for a few times I would randomly turn the drive shaft. At 945pm I called Scott to check on the out drive he sent me a picture of the gauge, it didnt look like the needle moved, maybe a quarter to a half psi at the most but i couldnt really tell from the angle of the picture. I'll check it first thing in the morning.

For the sake of argument lets say if I pass the pressure test... I'm not out of the woods until i pass the vacuum test as it identifies water intrusion?

 

[Goldie627]

Goldie my man!! Honestly, you can tackle the outdrive. Im a auto mechanic like Scott and Im having no problems with it. He has the training to understand what to do. Jump in, pressure test it, find the seal that is the problem and replace. Run it for a season and recheck it. Like you said, its not much to remove the drive off the boat.

save the 1000 bucks for something else. I say re seal it. Based on your current skills I say you can do it.

Thanks ma man, I appreciate the vote of confidence. Im gonna give it my best try but it seems like the "how to info" is illusive and sort of ambiguous. At least for NOOB like me!!! Scott has been a big help explaining things to me. Like how a seal can hold a lot of pressure one direction but not so much the opposite direction. Its kinda like a trap door on an angle against a shaft, strong one way yet weak the other. He drew a picture for me and I got it. Im gonna do the vacuum test tomarrow then split the lower from the upper. If things go south I got my finger on the ebay order button for SEI! LOL

Always good to hear from ya!

 

[Goldie627]

 

[Goldie627]

 

[Goldie627]

 

[Goldie627]

 

[tpenfield]

I must be blind as a bat... I don't see anywhere in the Manual (I'm referencing #6) where it talks about pressure or vacuum testing the outdrive. All of the info I"ve read here on the forum talks about how to make the pressure / vacuum tester but I cant find anything about how to actually use it.

What is an acceptable (psi) pressure loss per hour?

When you say you sprayed the seals do you mean that you sprayed the exterior of the outdrive before you separated the lower from the upper?

Or, if you dont mind, could you please give me the acceptable parameters for both pressure and vacuum tests?

For the sake of argument lets say if I pass the pressure test... I'm not out of the woods until i pass the vacuum test as it identifies water intrusion?

Here is my thread on doing a pressure test and fixing my Bravo 3 Outdrive. http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engin...m-the-outdrive

I did not refer to the manual when doing the pressure test, never actually saw it in my manual . . . maybe it is in a service bulletin or something :noidea:

Anyway, the concept is pretty basic, like finding a leak in a tire. 10 PSI is about all you want to have and it should hold it for at least an hour with no noticeable loss. As a quick method, I use the soapy water, as that will show the leak fairly quickly and the actual location as well. I sprayed the areas where the shafts are . . . drive shaft, prop shaft, etc. Spraying the housing like you did is OK too, in case you have a seal leak or something. You should remove the propeller, so you can spray and see if there is a leak around the prop shaft.


I'm not so sure about doing a vacuum test, the pressure test alone is probably fine.

 

[Goldie627]

Thanks TP, your answer was very helpful and I'm reading through your thread now... I went back to some old footage of when i first took the outdrive off the boat. There was infact oil in the Ujoint bellow and the "rubber seal" aft of the Ujoint bellow was damaged. I really dont think we damaged the seal when removing the outdrive. Here is the video, about half way through shows the seal...

 

[Rick Stephens]

Hey Goldie, you've been busy. A few ideas on where to find a leaky seal. First, upper case and lower case are 2 almost completely separate containers. The only real connection between them is a tiny less than 1/4 inch oil passage with an o-ring that seals when the two cases are bolted together. That seal is pretty robust and has no moving parts. There is no 'seal' between the cases other than that and water is on both inside and outside where the two cases come together.

There are 5 'moving parts' seals. Right behind the u-joint is the input shaft seal. At the lower end of the upper case is the seal where the shaft inserts coming up from the lower. The one input and the one output shaft seal is it for the upper gear case. It is HARD to get soap spray on those two seals, and even harder to see bubbles forming where the seal is located. Probably the easier of the two is the bottom side where you can use a flashlight and see a lot of it looking through the exhaust passage.

In the lower, you have a seal under the water pump for the lower input shaft. Frankly, have to pull the water pump and pressurize with the upper off to ever actually see bubbles forming on that seal. There is also the seal at the shift shaft. That also requires the cases split and the oil passage plugged to see that seal. The one seal you can see is the output shaft - the prop shaft seal. This is the one that is the first suspect as it can get fishing line or other stringy foreign body wrapped around the shaft and damage that seal. You gotta pull the prop to test it. And you want to put the drive in gear and have someone turn the input shaft while you spray the propeller output seal. Note - the propeller should be pulled every year and the seal area inspected for fishing line and the splined shaft greased up. If not, one day you will find the prop won't slide off when you need it to.

That clicking sound is just the shift dogs barely touching. If you rotate the shift shoe clockwise (forward gear), the propeller should engage and not allow you to turn it in reverse direction (CCW) without turning the entire drive train. Turning the propeller the other way will make the clicking sound as the dogs chatter.


Next, your mechanic is not speaking very precisely. It is entirely possible that if you had water in the bellows, that water would get into the gear case through the upper seal. That seal is a one way seal designed only to keep oil in. There is supposed to be air on the other side, in the bellows. If there is water in there it will be pulled inside the gear case when the case cools, which it does every time you stop the boat. Constant warming and cooling of the leg as you use it and stop and use it and stop, constant expansion and contraction, that is how water gets pulled in.

All the other seals on the outdrive are designed to be two way seals, they are double direction seals with one set of lips holding oil in and another set turned the other way to keep water out.

This is why we pressure test. Last drive I pressure tested would not hold air. This was on a Gen2, and the shifter shaft seal is a lot different than the earlier Alpha 1, but that is where I found the leak. I almost took it in to be resealed, near thousand dollar estimate, before I found it. The leak would occur just by wriggling the shift shaft around.

Rick

 

[boatman37]

the seal theory scott mentioned is the same reason a rear main seal on the earlier style engines had to be installed 1 way only. they had to be installed with the lip towards the engine or they would leak

 

[Goldie627]

 

[Goldie627]

Gelcoat Updates

 

[Goldie627]

A few more.....

 

[Goldie627]

Thanks Rick for braking it down in a way I can understand, you are appreciated!

 

[Woodonglass]

Hey goldie, If you want to smooth over some of those "Pock Marks" in the deck you can add a bit of cabosil to the gelcoat to thicken it to a paste and then spread it with a wide plastic putty knife and it'll fill in those pock marks and lay down smooth as ICE!!! Any small ridges left behind can be easily sanded smooth. Once smooth you could then to a final roll out with a final coat and add a bit of sand for a texture coat!!! But be careful, you're getting advice from an Old Dumb Okie and THAT can be a DANGEROUS THING!!!!!

(I KNOW you'll enjoy this PIC)