'83 Lund "Sirius" total gut and rebuild

sphelps

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Sorry about the setback nm ... It happens ... I have used the bondo glass on the MFG and it works ok for a filler but that's on gell and raw glass .. It would not work over primer .. And it takes a LOT more sanding to get it paintable .. The 3M premium marine filler works great but I think over primer would be a no no ..
What we need is a glazing compound that is waterproof that can be used over primer for catching little stuff that ya can't seem to live with before final paint .. Now for pin holes just using the un thinned primer and a squeegee works really well ..
 

nurseman

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Hi Nurseman. The general rule is that each paint manufacturer has their own line of products which are not to be mixed and matched. I have personally used epoxy primer with other brand topcoats with good results, but you always take a risk because individual companies spend a lot of money refining the chemistry of their own products with their own

I don't know who would have lead you to believe that you could put resin over a primer. Could be the MEKP eating into the primer? But hey, things happen ;) Once you primer, you're done. You're in the automotive world.

Ideally, you would do all of your rough blocking and bodywork first on the hull. Fill and fair with SM fairing compound and epoxy resin which I feel adheres a heck of a lot better to the old gelcoat after the fact, than poly resin. The fairing compound completely solidifies the hull where as high build primers and body fillers may chip crack or peel on a pounding hull. It's like a huge paint layer, that does not become part of the hull like epoxy. Doing this step first, saves a lot of the more expensive primer from being sanded off and onto the floor.

Currently existing gelcoat is the best high build primer while doing the initial block sanding I've found.

After the boat is pretty close to perfect you have a couple of choices...
- Shoot a high build primer then block using a guide coat, shoot again, block sand, etc., shoot as a sealer(reduced) then paint(kind of where you are now).
Or
- epoxy prime, use spot glaze on any minor imperfections during the recoat window(pinholes in bodywork,etc.), then shoot epoxy primer as a sealer, then shoot the color.

Bondo absorbs moisture. This is why we bondo over epoxy primer instead of bare metal because the heat of the body filler cure can trap moisture between the bondo and the metal.

At this point my suggestion would be, to use a marine brand filler (because your paint will crack or chip eventually in the future, even above the water line) and make sure it is compatible with your current primer. Compatibility is key. I get eye rolls for using expensive paint but the steps are clear and I use a heck of a lot less paint and it's a whole lot less work.

Hopefully that all came out good spirited. Love your work Nurseman and I'm a big fan!

Thanks jc! I really appreciate the information. I can't blame anyone for leading me astray with the filler over primer, I for some reason thought you could do that, and I never searched deep enough to find otherwise! MY BAD!! Just shows (yet again) the danger of working off of an assumption! Live and learn...


Mornin Nurseman,
Like JC55 says, once you apply primer, you are pretty much locked into proceeding with painting...
The only thing that is recommended over primer, before paint is to use a very thin filler for things like pin holes, otherwise you need to apply new layers of filler for leveling to the substrate, in this case the gel coat surface that should be NO smoother than about 120 or 150 grit finished, I prefer 80-100 grit to allow the leveling fill to get a good mechanical bond.
I strongly advise against using any automotive type "bondo" on water craft, since most of it contains copious amounts of talc added as a filler/thickener and thus makes bondo like a sponge for water...
Sorry to hear of the disastrous waste of time and material, but as we all know this is a learning experience for us and mistakes are totally part of the learning curve...
All the best!;)

Thanks for stopping by GT!
I have been doing my filler sanding with 80 grit, so I should have a good mechanical bond. I will stay away from the automotive fillers per your and jc's recommendations.
Thankfully I didn't waste a ton of filler, only about 150mL or so, but it is still irritating:mad:. Oh well, that is one more thing I can add to my list of what not to do...


Sorry about the setback nm ... It happens ... I have used the bondo glass on the MFG and it works ok for a filler but that's on gell and raw glass .. It would not work over primer .. And it takes a LOT more sanding to get it paintable .. The 3M premium marine filler works great but I think over primer would be a no no ..
What we need is a glazing compound that is waterproof that can be used over primer for catching little stuff that ya can't seem to live with before final paint .. Now for pin holes just using the un thinned primer and a squeegee works really well ..

Thanks Sam, I did use the un thinned primer to take care of the pin holes, it worked really well.


Maybe this filler would work for you NM:

http://bondo.com/featured/bondo-glass-fiberglass-reinforced-filler-272.html

$20 a quart at walmart.

Thanks for dropping by Jig! After getting the input from the expert body men, I think I will avoid using bondo.
 

sphelps

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The bondo glass I used said right on the can "waterproof " .. I think it's the reg auto type bondo filler with all the talc is what you should avoid .. But it was so hard to sand I don't plan on using it for fairing again ...
 

Woodonglass

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What were you filling? If it was small imperfections and low depressions and pinholes then I'd recommend taping off the area and applying a few more coats of HIgh build primer to build it up and fill it in. If that won't do it then you'll need to sand off the primer down to glass as you did, and refill. As you discovered the solvents in the primer will react with the resin and not allow it to KICK!!!

Sorry Bout DAT!!!!;)
 
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jc55

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What we need is a glazing compound that is waterproof that can be used over primer for catching little stuff that ya can't seem to live with before final paint .. Now for pin holes just using the un thinned primer and a squeegee works really well ..

Yes, like a marine polyester putty that is compatible with your primer. You can generally fill over epoxy primer all day long but the 2 part urethanes get a little tricky.

Can I ask, how much blocking are you doing, and how perfect are you getting her? Sometimes you get large areas to sweep and look great but it is not necessary to get an area say, like the transom flat perfect like a sheet of glass. Your body work is going to "change" and "move" on a flexible hull over time.

Wax and grease remover doesn't evaporate quickly. If you wipe down a section really heavy, with a light off to the side, you can see what you're gonna get after paint. Just trying to save some work for ya:tea:?
 

nurseman

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Can I ask, how much blocking are you doing, and how perfect are you getting her? Sometimes you get large areas to sweep and look great but it is not necessary to get an area say, like the transom flat perfect like a sheet of glass. Your body work is going to "change" and "move" on a flexible hull over time.

Wax and grease remover doesn't evaporate quickly. If you wipe down a section really heavy, with a light off to the side, you can see what you're gonna get after paint. Just trying to save some work for ya:tea:?

I wasn't trying to get her perfect, but I still want a decent looking finish. I had done a fair amount of blocking with an 18" long board before priming, but when I was blocking down the primer, I made a 36" board out of some 1.5" pink board, which worked really well, but showed lots of waves in the gunnels. That is why I decided to throw some more filler on her. The below water portion of the hull is "good enough" and am not messing with it any more.
So after yesterdays fiasco, I am blocking the gunnels down REAL good with the 36" board and filling anything that shows low. One of my problems is that I didn't use a guide coat while blocking it the first time, because I was planning on using the first coat of primer as a guide coat. So many lessons...:facepalm:
 

Woodonglass

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Uhhmmm...I'm just sayin...
boat-photo-twin-volvo-ips-underway-view.jpg


I KNOW how it can be, cuz I've been there but once you get her in the water it won't really matter all that much. But I KNOW!!!!!!:D;)
 

friderday

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Apr 1, 2012
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Couldn't agree with WOG more...and couldn't agree with nurseman(aka Mr. Clampett) more either..it's a fine line we walk. I so totally get it...I worked many hours trying to make sure my hull was smooth as a baby's behind. On our first restore with my son's boat, he has a spot right on the front of the keel that looks horrific, I almost gasp just thinking about it, because he/we didn't put forth too much effort. Once he gelcoated and saw it he said he didn't care. I was so happy when mine had less imperfections, but he was right...it really doesn't matter. Nurseman, continue to strive for the best...it shows how much pride you have in your work.
 

friderday

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For instance..I took my crappiest boat out last night, one that will be my next restore. And I did not hear this dinosaur complain when I got her in the boat, when I measured her at 39", when I weighed her at 19lbs, nor did I hear her say, "what a shi^*y boat that was" when I released her...
 

jc55

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36" is wayyyyyy too long IMO. You're gonna drive yourself crazy. Here are my blocks...
blocks.jpg


The longest is 16". There is a rounded long block, a tear shaped block, and even a piece of radiator hose. (pool noddles work too) A cross hatch pattern even with a 6" block going down the gunwale will still look great. Scotchbrite will keep your edges from getting sharp. I've done lots of crazy block sanding on lots of vehicles. Including 7ft long quarters with only the tools above..
side1.jpg
 

sphelps

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Ummm jc I got a couple vehicles that could really use a paint job ... Would ya mind when ya get the time ? :watermelon:
 

jc55

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Wish I could get credit sphelps, but I did all the body work on several vehicles, they were pushed into a paint booth and someone else shot the final color. I'm just now getting into final paint on boats.
 

kcassells

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Uhhmmm...I'm just sayin...
boat-photo-twin-volvo-ips-underway-view.jpg


I KNOW how it can be, cuz I've been there but once you get her in the water it won't really matter all that much. But I KNOW!!!!!!:D;)


Please note NM. In that pic there are no fish or any type of aquatic life picture by Wood of the hull underside. So I suggest that the hull of that boat was a little rough finished. And they would not go near the boat. Look at the pic see what I mean?
On another note sorry to hear that you have to do the rework. pia and it will be awesome when you finish.
 

Woodonglass

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Yeah, that's the PROBLEM. See how much of a GLARE there is. It SCARES the fish away!!!! Terrible Fishing Boat!!!!:lol:
 

RStewart

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Dec 21, 2014
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NM, this wasn't a set back or mistake but a learning experience. It isn't much fun redoing things but it's part of it I guess.
 

jigngrub

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For instance..I took my crappiest boat out last night, one that will be my next restore. And I did not hear this dinosaur complain when I got her in the boat, when I measured her at 39", when I weighed her at 19lbs, nor did I hear her say, "what a shi^*y boat that was" when I released her...

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm! Fried Snook!!!:hungry:

You keep posting pics like that and I'm going to have to come down for a visit.;)
 

sphelps

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Yeah jig , Lisa's always popping in making us all jealous with stuff like this !
Makes ya want to move to S Fla !
 

GT1000000

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Wish I could get credit sphelps, but I did all the body work on several vehicles, they were pushed into a paint booth and someone else shot the final color. I'm just now getting into final paint on boats.

I do the same kind of work, JC...and I was told by a very wise man...
The painter can only perform his magic if we prepared the "Canvas" correctly...;)
 

nurseman

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36" is wayyyyyy too long IMO. You're gonna drive yourself crazy. Here are my blocks...
blocks.jpg


The longest is 16". There is a rounded long block, a tear shaped block, and even a piece of radiator hose. (pool noddles work too) A cross hatch pattern even with a 6" block going down the gunwale will still look great. Scotchbrite will keep your edges from getting sharp.

Yea, I misspoke yesterday, my blocks are 16" and 32", with some smaller ones as well. I like the radiator hose idea, as well as the scotchbrite pad! I thought the 32" block worked pretty good for getting the transom straight as well as the more gentle curves on the gunnels. As for driving myself crazy, I'm pretty sure that I'm well on the journey!

After my impromptu lesson in body work, I am happy to say that I am back to where I was about three weeks ago! After scraping off all of my inappropriately applied filler, I removed the primer in those spots, refilled, sanded and finally got some primer on her last night. Here are a couple of shots of the primer coats.





Hope everyone had a more productive weekend than I did!
 

friderday

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Jig...snook out of season for a bit longer, so this one lived to see another day. I've got $50 that says when season opens, I won't be able to find one. They're smart little (or not so little) boogers! I've caught 5 since and including Christmas day. We'll see what happens when they open the season. Thanks Sam...I look even worse in those boxers than I did the first time...but I stand by my initial point...fish don't care if the boat ain't purty nor the boxer shorts!! They taste just the same when you fry their fingers!
 
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