5.7 gl fuel pump and emergency stop?

[SeaLord]

Hi
My glastron with its volvo 5.7 gl is currently in an area where sufficiently experienced mechanic are difficult to find.
Since it has arrived from the US I have not dared to start the engine since I knew it needed the yearly maintenance including disassembling outdrive so to change bellows and lubricate ujoint. It has taken 3 months to eventually find somebody to do a 4 hrs job.
So since January the engine has not been started.


Engine crancks but does not start. I opened the fuel hose just at the connection with the carburetor and found no fuel.

• 
  I checked possible clogs in the fuel system by blowing into the fuel tank: fuel comes out of the hose.
  My tester seems to indicate that there is no power at the electric fuel pump when I turn on the key not even when I turn further to ignition .
  7.5 amp fuse seems ok.

I thought there is may be a simple answer. does emergency stop (you normally connect a lanyard to the button that when released stop the engine) connect right to the fuel pump so if that connection is not functioning properly the fuel pump does not start?

Any other hint ?

Thank you

 

[wrench 3]

Re: 5.7 gl fuel pump and emergency stop?

I could not find any electric fuel pump information for a 5.7L GL carburetted. Is it possible you have a TBI engine. If so, the fuel pump is controled by the computer. It will come on for a few seconds when the ignition is first turned on and then will not run again until the ignition fires.
The safty switch turns off the ignition. Do you have spark?

 

[SeaLord]

Re: 5.7 gl fuel pump and emergency stop?

thank you for checking.
5.7 gl-a is a carbureted model and the fuel pump spares is https://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/volvo-penta-explodedview-7744290-23-6922.aspx.
In the meanwhile things have got more complicated:
because of a local mechanic mishap a short circuit with a battery burnt the alternator diode
after having removed the flame arrestor the engine started (this was probably due to a clog because of 10 months inactivity).
the fuel supply is though erratic and after operating a minute or 2 the engine dies
I then filled in a 1.5 lt bottle the gasoline and fed carburetor bypassing the pump. Engine started and worked without interruption. after 5 minute the sound alarm went on and dash gauge temperature reading was well above 175 (The outdrive is immerse in a drum of water up to the lower gearhousing top. Water in the bucket was definitively well under 175F ).

Since before it was shipped the boat was inspected and tested in the water having a compression test in the normal range I suspect that there is something that prevents the electric component (i guess the water pump is not doing what it has to do: I put my hands close to the sterndrive inlet and did not feel the strong suck I was expecting) to work properly.

Note that I changed all oils and filters in both engine and sterndrive, disassembled the sterndrive to lubricate ujoint, splines and change bellows, replaced sparks, impeller and thermostat.

I have already ordered a new alternator (but in waiting I may get the diode repaired) and, just in case a fuel pump. I already have a spare water pump.
Any thoughts ?


Thank you

 

[bruceb58]

Re: 5.7 gl fuel pump and emergency stop?

Here is the fuel pump circuit.

You can test to see if your pump works by pulling the relay and connecting 30 and 87 terminals of the socket.

 

[wrench 3]

Re: 5.7 gl fuel pump and emergency stop?

My first thought on your last post SeaLord, was "DON'T PUT YOUR HAND NEAR THE DRIVE WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING". That said, I don't like running them in a barrel. Had a few overheat. The GLs usually have a connector for a garden hose on the front corner of the engine.

 

[SeaLord]

Re: 5.7 gl fuel pump and emergency stop?

My first thought on your last post SeaLord, was "DON'T PUT YOUR HAND NEAR THE DRIVE WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING". That said, I don't like running them in a barrel. Had a few overheat. The GLs usually have a connector for a garden hose on the front corner of the engine.

Thank you for your concern Wrench
Actually the propeller is not in the drive so there should be no security concern with my hand being close to the drive water intake.
the barrels contain about 120 lt of water and water intake is fully submersed so I would be very interested if you further developped why it may give a oroblem with water circulation.
In addition the flush hose is not to be used when engine is running out of the water according to the volvo penta manual that instead reccomends the system that I am using.

Further I tried the hose flush system with the engine switched off when the boat arrived just to get rid of the obvious dirt, drain plug closed. I was expecting the water to come out from the water outlet in the drive (as it did while testing the system in the drum) but instead it came from somewhere in the sterndrive attachment.

Further thought ?

 

[SeaLord]

Re: 5.7 gl fuel pump and emergency stop?

Here is the fuel pump circuit.

You can test to see if your pump works by pulling the relay and connecting 30 and 87 terminals of the socket.

thank you
If I understand correctly, connecting 30 to 87 connects the battery directly to the pump and therefore bypasses any other problem due to other system (including the burnt alternator)


Any hint on the excessive water temp knowing
the engine (2002, 120hrs) was positively tested by inspector in and out of the water at the time of purchase jan 2013. Boat was shipped and not run since then
Recently, as a precautionary maintenance, I changed impeller, and thermostat in addition to sparks, oil and filters. In the stern drive the ujoint and splines were lubed, bellows replace engine checked for alignment, oil replaced. Do you see any possible misshandling during this maintenance that may have caused the current overheating ?
Is the raw water pump or the circuit water pump powered by electricity at any moment ?
how strong is the suck i should feel with my hand on the sterndrive intake when engine is running ? Is this sucking force vriable depending on the thermostat reading ?

Thanks

 

[bruceb58]

Re: 5.7 gl fuel pump and emergency stop?

Running the drive in a barrel won't work. The reason is that the pump can't get enough suction to lift the water sufficiently because it can't prime itself. When your boat is in the water, the raw water pump, mounted on the crankshaft of the engine, is actually below the water line. It rises above the water line when you are on plane but by that time, the water is forced into the water intake at the drive, due to the forward travel of the boat, so it doesn't matter.

If you have been using this barrel method for very long, I would be replacing your raw water pump impeller.

Use muffs. I really doubt it says not to in your manual. I use muffs all the time. At sometime around 2002, they start putting flush ports on the engines. Some of these, but not all, allow you to run the engine using this out of the water. Their main purpose was to allow you to flush salt water out of the engine while you are in the water. Depends if the water supply goes to the raw water pump or not and if air could get sucked in. Should have a blue cap.


Connecting the two terminals together powers the fuel pump directly. Only do this in emergencies and for testing.

EDIT: Here is your owners manual:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/83197541/7741591.pdf
Says nothing in here about using the barrel method you are using. You actually looking at a real Volvo owners manual or an aftermarket service manual like a Seloc or a Clymer?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: 5.7 gl fuel pump and emergency stop?

I saw this picture on your other thread:



I put an arrow on the right hand side of the picure pointing at a hose. Not sure what hose this is, but if it is the flush hose, it needs to have a cap on it or you could be sucking air.

 

[SeaLord]

Re: 5.7 gl fuel pump and emergency stop?

Running the drive in a barrel won't work. The reason is that the pump can't get enough suction to lift the water sufficiently because it can't prime itself. When your boat is in the water, the raw water pump, mounted on the crankshaft of the engine, is actually below the water line. It rises above the water line when you are on plane but by that time, the water is forced into the water intake at the drive, due to the forward travel of the boat, so it doesn't matter.

If you have been using this barrel method for very long, I would be replacing your raw water pump impeller.

Use muffs. I really doubt it says not to in your manual. I use muffs all the time. At sometime around 2002, they start putting flush ports on the engines. Some of these, but not all, allow you to run the engine using this out of the water. Their main purpose was to allow you to flush salt water out of the engine while you are in the water. Depends if the water supply goes to the raw water pump or not and if air could get sucked in. Should have a blue cap.


Connecting the two terminals together powers the fuel pump directly. Only do this in emergencies and for testing.

EDIT: Here is your owners manual:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/83197541/7741591.pdf
Says nothing in here about using the barrel method you are using. You actually looking at a real Volvo owners manual or an aftermarket service manual like a Seloc or a Clymer?

thank you
very sound explanation.

The engine workshop manual says to use a flushing adaptor installed on sterndrive. In the cooling system section it mentiones "....If operating unit in test tank, run motor in neutral" Many utube testing shows a barrel (tank ?) as a possibility therefore I took for granted it should work in my case too. Manual also says "Do not run the engine durin the flushing procedure. Water is not supplied to the raw water pump and the pump impeller will be damaged."

I have already ordered ears muff but it won't reach me before a couple of months. I understand it is only a matter of priming the pump then the many gallons in the barrel would do. is there any way I can safely prime the raw water pump while waiting for the ear muff ?

How about running the engine with the garden hose suppling water to the flushing hose with the sterndrive into the barrel ?

At my location I only have a ramp and 3 times/day tide cycle so getting to the water with an untested boat is not exactly safe given also my little experience with power boating.

By the way my attempts lasted a total of 20 minutes, (less than 5 with the alert sound on 240F) and I had just changed the impeller. According to your concern I will check the impeller (I have bought 3 before the boat left the US soil)


thank you

 

[SeaLord]

Re: 5.7 gl fuel pump and emergency stop?

I saw this picture on your other thread:

View attachment 218234

I put an arrow on the right hand side of the picure pointing at a hose. Not sure what hose this is, but if it is the flush hose, it needs to have a cap on it or you could be sucking air.

Thank you
Well spotted. that is the flush hose and it has a screw in cap. My understanding is that the flushing system circulates water on the engine cycle only. I have left the manifold drains on while feeding with garden water. Water then sort of leaked from the transom mount and not from the water outlet in the outdrive. Normal ?
Obviously if the boat is in the water I would not open the manifold drain plugs otherwise all water would fall in the engine compartment. Wondering....
Thank you

 

[bruceb58]

Re: 5.7 gl fuel pump and emergency stop?

I think I would wait for the muffs. Probably wouldn't hurt to have the flushing adapter hooked up to the engine while running in the barrel if you positively have to have the engine running on land right now. Its not going to hurt anything.

Water should leak from near the transom mount. That is totally normal. Those are the exhaust relief ports. In fact, when you run the engine on the muffs, most of the water will exit there.

 

[SeaLord]

Re: 5.7 gl fuel pump and emergency stop?

I think I would wait for the muffs. Probably wouldn't hurt to have the flushing adapter hooked up to the engine while running in the barrel if you positively have to have the engine running on land right now. Its not going to hurt anything.

Water should leak from near the transom mount. That is totally normal. Those are the exhaust relief ports. In fact, when you run the engine on the muffs, most of the water will exit there.

Thank you
Reason for trying to run it now is that if something else is wrong I may order the complete list at once.
So in case you think that running in the barrel with a flushing hose attached will not hurt the raw water pump (it would suck without success according to your explanation) I would definitively try to do it.
Obviously if you knew a way to prime it in the sense of my usage would be much better.

Thank you

 

[wrench 3]

Re: 5.7 gl fuel pump and emergency stop?

Thank you
Reason for trying to run it now is that if something else is wrong I may order the complete list at once.
So in case you think that running in the barrel with a flushing hose attached will not hurt the raw water pump (it would suck without success according to your explanation) I would definitively try to do it.
Obviously if you knew a way to prime it in the sense of my usage would be much better.

You may be safer to remove the suction hose from where it comes through the transom plate and connect the garden hose to the suction hose. On an AQ model, the fitting on the garden hose will clamp right into the suction hose, but I don't know about a GL. I always use the muffs on them.
BTW what part of the world are you in?

 

[SeaLord]

Re: 5.7 gl fuel pump and emergency stop?

You may be safer to remove the suction hose from where it comes through the transom plate and connect the garden hose to the suction hose. On an AQ model, the fitting on the garden hose will clamp right into the suction hose, but I don't know about a GL. I always use the muffs on them.
BTW what part of the world are you in?

Thanks.
My INDIANA took a long ride from florida to Dar es salaam, Tanzania in the beautiful indian ocean. Not yet in the water though...

Thank you

 

[wrench 3]

Re: 5.7 gl fuel pump and emergency stop?

Well the best of luck to you and I hope you get to enjoy the boat soon.