different carbs now I've another issue Johnson 60hp... update....

fishfeatures

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60hp 1990

I discovered cracked pick up tubes which I believe resulted in the problems I had trying to get the motor to idle.
I had an old set of 70 hp carbs which I threw on in their place and WOOHOO! problem solved it idled great on muffs.
Off down to the river , put her in and Yes ! it idled there too... so after letting it warm up, i went for a spin, but once on a plane at wot it flat flat on it's face, and started surging, time and time again....


Drove home and this evening I pulled off the carbs to double check that the high speed jets were clean. CArbs are spotless, went to start up the motor and the darn thing now won't even idle!!!

it'll start, go for 5 secs and then quit! I didn't change any other settings at all, why won't the thing idle now??? it would yesterday!!

One prob leads to another , to another,


I've good comp, spark. I've a brand new p/p which was a result of another issue.
I'm thinking fuel pump as all the lines were replaced not too long ago either.

Any ideas folks??
 

Will Bark

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Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Others will chime in but did you clean the idle circuits under the welch plugs on the carbs if it has them; those holes have to be clean and the best way is to use the wire out of bread tie plus carb cleaner and compressed air. Good luck.
 

fishfeatures

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Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Will bark , carb kits used on 70hp carbs , and every hole inc ones under plugs , have been gone through with wires and carb cleaner and air. It's just puzzling that one day it'll idle no prob , next day it won't ....
 

fishfeatures

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Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

ok so i've had the pump apart and it looks fine , so i think i can rule that out for the reason it was falling flat on it's face at wot.
I'll rip off the carbs again just in case i've sticking needles or floats or something.

this is a right PITA...
 

durban

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Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

i will just add my share of this issue next time you get it started & if it cuts out very soon , then take all 3 plugs out & get some one to turn the key u stand at the back & watch the water come out k
 

fishfeatures

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Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

no sign of water intrusion on the plugs though Durban.
 

durban

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Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

that's good to hear , i can then put it down to fuel starvation mainly cause by getting air into the system some where ,
 

fishfeatures

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Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

I start at the tank and work my way up to the carbs so, checking lines , bulbs , etc. cheers for the info Durban.
 

Haffiman

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Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Did you change fuel hoses on the engine at the same time as 'messing' with the carbs? I've seen many times pieces of old hoses taking its way into carbs when assembling back on the engine. If hoses not 100%, you may end up in a squirrel wheel cleaning the carbs!
 

fishfeatures

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Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Hoses were changed out not too long ago while trying to sort issue with original carbs, but will def look at them though.
 

fishfeatures

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Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

ok lads, i pulled the pump apart and the diaphragm looked good so I put it back together. Pumped the bulb and listened and watched everything , and then i noticed it ! the pump was slightly leaking from the back of it so ripped it off and made new gaskets ( it'd take too long to get rebuilt kit shipped here). Re-assembled it and it showed no leaks.
Started up on the muffs did a cylinder drop test with pliers and each cylinder had the same effect, it idled like a champ.

Down to the river and it idled , let it warm up, shoved off and ........... nothing it bogged and died !!
idled it back to the dock tied it off , put it back on the trailer and tried several times to throttle up. Lync and sync redone several times and that is all good as far as I know.

I think Durban suggested water issue. maybe there's water coming in along the lower unit somewhere causing trouble????

would water have this effect on the motor???
 

durban

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Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

take it back to river & go full wot the minute it starts to show any signs of what its doing then stop the motor take all 3 plugs out get your m8t to turn the key you hold a piece of white paper at the back by the plug holes if there is water coming in it will show up on the paper
 

fishfeatures

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Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

I'll try it Durban but I am confident that there is no water getting in thecylinders. It'll idle all day just when i go to throttle up it'll bog and die. There is definetely no sign of water on the plugs though but anything is worth a shot. my thinking has lead me to assume that my lower unit is not sealing up well somehow and that there is water getting inside causing this. It's strange as my original issue above was that it would plane then bog , now it'll idle and not go anywhere.
 

Haffiman

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Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Sounds to me like you have removed the VRO and are running the old type pump?
Try hooking up the fuel hose directly onto the fuel-T (by-pass the pump) and use only bulb as pump and give it a test. Seems you have a capacity problem somewhere. Any serious leakage and engine would not idle!!
 

fishfeatures

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Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Sounds to me like you have removed the VRO and are running the old type pump?
Try hooking up the fuel hose directly onto the fuel-T (by-pass the pump) and use only bulb as pump and give it a test. Seems you have a capacity problem somewhere. Any serious leakage and engine would not idle!!

Spot on Haffiman , VRO is gone and old type pump in.. Would I have to plug the hose coming from the bottom of the crank case that causes the pump to pulse during this test?
Although the carb bowls have fuel in them at idle so surely i should at least be able to go 20-30 yrds before the fuel symptoms showed when throttling up ..no ???
 

Haffiman

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Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Just leave the pump as is, with pulse hose on.
However to another question.
This engine, the '3-cyls', are quite sensitive when it comes to the air box and that all gaskets are there and no extra air entering except for the original intake holes. It need the vacuum in the air box to start the main jet circuits.If running without the air box and cover, what you describe is 'normal'.
What you may do, is the following test.
Remove the air-box cover, give full throttle.
Notice the amount of fuel coming up in each center tube.
If no fuel, quickly block the carb throat and check if it starts drawing fuel.
 

fishfeatures

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Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

I actually forgot to mention that it revs up whilst out of gear,in the water. surely this isn't a fuel condition then ....is it?
 

fishfeatures

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Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

ok update,

It'll start up on muffs and idle , no problem there.

now the bit we are not to do!!! please forgive me...


I knocked it into gear and pushed it up to 4000 and it went no sign of it bogging. That's on muffs.... so technically she runs fine on muffs.

I'm off to the river to see if it bogs again and if so then i'll try the suggestions above.

Will be back in a while...
 

fishfeatures

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Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

I'm back ,and it still idled in gear but stalled when asked to do more.

Durban, no signs of water with plugs removed
Haffiman, no change when pump out of the equation.

Interesting bit though is.. i studied and studied all parts of the motor, and I think I have spotted the prob. I bought this block as mine was blew due to saltwater use (another thread here somewhere). Well anyway I noticed fuel on the starboard side and thought thats funny as pmp and all fittings on port side esp now that i've no primer.
I let it idle in gear and i noticed a small leak from the crankcase !!! now i know this ain't good so besides making the motor run lean can this be the darn devil in the motor???
 

durban

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Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

Re: different carbs now I've another issue johnosn 60hp

it sounds like you having a rough time down there m8t ,the other thing you can try is change the stator , there could be a short in the high speed windings , when the motor is under torque , possibly the solution to your problem .
 
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