How to get better MPG when towing???

S

Surffx

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 10, 2005
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133
*Note to admins: I am asking this question in hopes of increasing my MPG when it comes to towing and that?s why I believe it belongs in this section. Thank you.

**Note to responders: Over the past years you have been an extremely helpful and knowledgeable bunch...thank you for that. And although I cannot take away your freedom to respond in any manner you?d like I am not looking for opinions on this subject. In-fact I am not even interested in text book facts concerning the laws of thermodynamics. I AM specifically asking this question because this is the largest audience I have in dealing with internal combustion engines and more specifically towing with them. I WOULD like to hear from anyone who has actual hands-on experience with this and how well it works. Thank you.

Now on to the question?to those who have actual experience with it.

HHO hybrid kits for your car?Do they work? Do they damage your car? Where did you buy/build them from?

Thanks again
 
CATransplant

CATransplant

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Feb 26, 2005
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6,319
Re: How to get better MPG when towing???

How far are you towing on a regular basis, and what is the difference in mileage when you tow?

You don't offer much information, really. It's all economics. If you're considering putting out money to achieve higher gas mileage, how long will it take you to recover that expense, given your current extra costs for towing?

In almost all cases, the economic equation will not work out in a way that will justify spending a bunch of money to increase your mileage, unless you are willing to: 1. get a smaller boat 2. decrease the amount of towing you will do, or 3: tow so much that the cost is so large that you can recover an investment in increasing your mileage.

Bottom line is that it costs a certain amount to tow a boat of a certain weight a certain number of miles. Any increase in fuel mileage is likely to be not worth the cost required to get that increase, since the boat still weighs what it weighs and there is a cost to haul it however far you haul it.

You can either afford to haul your boat or you cannot. There's no magic bullet that will get rid of the cost. And never mind the cost of operating the boat when you get to your destination.
 
Silvertip

Silvertip

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Re: How to get better MPG when towing???

One proven way to get better mileage when towing is to slow down 5 MPH, stop with the jackrabbit starts and panic stops. Wind resistance is your enemy when towing the equivalent of a barn door through the wind. Cover your boat so it creates less drag. Anticipate hills. What that means is accelerate a little bit before you hit a hill so you don't have to accelerate so hard to make up for lost speed after entering the hill. This is especially important if you drive with cruise control on. Cruise controls can't anticipate a hill so when it finally realizes the vehicle is losing speed, it has to accelerate much harder to make up lost speed -- sometimes forcing a downshift that would not be necessary if you anticipated the hill. Towing without the A/C engaged helps a great deal but you must be willing to tough out the heat. Keeping tires aired up a couple pounds over the sticker helps as well. Each of these techniques by themselves don't add much to fuel economy but together they can make a difference. The difference in towing vs not towing with my S10 CrewCab towing a 2500# walleye boat and a weeks worth of supplies is 16 - 17 towing and 20 - 21 not towing. I have a pontoon that I will be gathering data on shortly. Talk about towing a barn door through the wind! Short trips so far show a definite increase in drag above 60 MPH,
 
S

Surffx

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 10, 2005
Messages
133
Re: How to get better MPG when towing???

Ok I'll try asking my question again...

Has anyone ever tried one of those HHO hybrid kits for your car?
 
R

RyanSS

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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May 29, 2008
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Re: How to get better MPG when towing???

You wouldn't have to ask the question again if you didn't ask something completely different in the SUBJECT line.
 
shorts&chanclas

shorts&chanclas

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Re: How to get better MPG when towing???

a hydrogen separator which cracks water and mixes the hydrogen with regular gas and releases the oxygen or something like that. Supposed to be experimental but can be converted on any vehicle. The way i understand it...it simply replaces some of gas with hydrogen and there are modifications but nothing past the injectors. So assuming the hydrogen has the same combustion power as gasoline your tow vehicle should perform comparable.

Its not really increasing your milage just lowering your gasoline consumption by replacing a portion with hydrogen. I dont know how long you can run it and if its statistically proven in a controlled environment to be effective.

I heard they cost north of a grand to retro and require some other chemicals/maintenance. Some local guy here has done it to his wife's Lexus SUV grocery getter. It sounds promising, but wasn't E85 promising at one time too...hey how about our own oil?
 
C

CatTwentyTwo

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 11, 2005
Messages
425
Re: How to get better MPG when towing???

Surffx, I am always looking for better milage also. This kit sounds like it would be a great addition to my split fire plugs, fuel line magnet and intake tornado. Is there any chance that you just happen to know of a dealer for these kits?
 
T

Titanium48

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
303
Re: How to get better MPG when towing???

TANSTAAFL. (There aint not such thing as a free lunch). I could explain why the "HHO kit" is a modern day version of the "100 MPG carburettor the oil companies don't want you to know about", but the O.P. doesn't want to be bothered with the laws of thermodynamics.
 
Silvertip

Silvertip

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Re: How to get better MPG when towing???

In my case (Chevy Impala) as long as E-85 is 40 cents/gallon cheaper than gasoline, it pays to use it if you have a vehicle that can run it. It is 60 cents cheaper here in Minnesota and I use it religiously as the car does perform better although mileage is not as good as with regular. The only issue with E-85 is that it is heavily subsidized so we taxpayers are paying for its production whether or not we use it.
 
A

aborgman

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 30, 2007
Messages
210
Re: How to get better MPG when towing???

Surffx said:
*Note to admins: I am asking this question in hopes of increasing my MPG when it comes to towing and that?s why I believe it belongs in this section. Thank you.

**Note to responders: Over the past years you have been an extremely helpful and knowledgeable bunch...thank you for that. And although I cannot take away your freedom to respond in any manner you?d like I am not looking for opinions on this subject. In-fact I am not even interested in text book facts concerning the laws of thermodynamics. I AM specifically asking this question because this is the largest audience I have in dealing with internal combustion engines and more specifically towing with them. I WOULD like to hear from anyone who has actual hands-on experience with this and how well it works. Thank you.

Now on to the question?to those who have actual experience with it.

HHO hybrid kits for your car?Do they work? Do they damage your car? Where did you buy/build them from?

Thanks again
Click to expand...

I know you said you don't want to hear text book facts concerning the laws of thermodynamics, but those facts specifically rule out HHO hybrids from working - just as they do perpetual motion machines.
 
S

Surffx

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 10, 2005
Messages
133
Re: How to get better MPG when towing???

Well for what's it's worth here are two websites I have seen that sell directions/plans on how to build them. The plans are like 50 bucks and they claim the parts can be bought for around a hundred. Thanks for your responses and let me know if anyone know of someone who has one of these installed.

http://www.runyourcarwithwater.com

http://hho-hybrid.com/

Thanks
 
J

jeeperman

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1,513
Re: How to get better MPG when towing???

Silvertip said:
In my case (Chevy Impala) as long as E-85 is 40 cents/gallon cheaper than gasoline, it pays to use it if you have a vehicle that can run it. It is 60 cents cheaper here in Minnesota and I use it religiously as the car does perform better although mileage is not as good as with regular. The only issue with E-85 is that it is heavily subsidized so we taxpayers are paying for its production whether or not we use it.
Click to expand...

So how much is the MPG loss between E85 and real gasoline for you running at? 10% ?
 
D

dodgeramsst2003

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Apr 15, 2008
Messages
177
Re: How to get better MPG when towing???

Well, E85 isnt' the answer as you'll lose 30% fuel economy. Stoich for regualar gas is 14.7:1 whereas E85 is 11:1. The E85 thing will be good if they can lower the cost more, but until then, don't buy into it. (Just for qualification I'm a dyno tech and have seen and done back2back comparisons on the dyno) Right now E85 just doesn't pay, unless you're trying for the green thing.

To answer the original posters question, there is a company in belleville michigan that produces a hydrogen generator that supposedly produces a 60% gain in fuel economy. I thinks its called the Hydro 4000 or something like that. Its costs around $1200. I'm skeptical but there is a new story on it where they do chassis dyno tests. I'm hopefully going to get some time and contact the owner ( They're only about 15 miles from me) and sit down and have a talk with him about the product.


Chris
 
bruceb58

bruceb58

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Re: How to get better MPG when towing???

Silvertip said:
In my case (Chevy Impala) as long as E-85 is 40 cents/gallon cheaper than gasoline, it pays to use it if you have a vehicle that can run it. It is 60 cents cheaper here in Minnesota and I use it religiously as the car does perform better although mileage is not as good as with regular. The only issue with E-85 is that it is heavily subsidized so we taxpayers are paying for its production whether or not we use it.
Click to expand...

You get 34% less gas mileage using E85 than regular gasoline. If regular gas is $4.00/gallon, the E85 better be close to $2.64/gallon or you are wasting your money.
 
Silvertip

Silvertip

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Re: How to get better MPG when towing???

Untrue and I invite to take a ride. Just last night I filled up with E-85 in the Twin Cities and put about 40 miles on the car in stop and go city driving. I then drove to the suburbs and eventually back to my home 58 miles south of the Twin Cities. mileage in town was a tick over 20 and by the time I got home the computer showed 24.5 MPG. On regular the car gets 29 - 31 but its 29 more than 31. If my math is correct that difference (24.5 - 29 is 18%). Using those numbers a 300 mile trip is cheaper, not by much but still cheaper as long as E-85 is 60 cents a gallon cheaper than regular. About one hour ago E-85 was $3.18 at my local station and $3.16 at another. Regular gas is $3.82 today all over town. the car also performs better on E-85 because ignition timing can be advanced because of the higher octane rating. I should also point out that my "regular gas" numbers are generally achieved on 400 mile or longer trips at freeway speeds whereas my E-85 numbers are generally a mix of heavy city driving (roughly 2/3) and 1/3 freeway so were I able to run one way on regular and the other on E-85 I would likely have numbers somewhat closer than they are. I'm very happy with this car but yes, one does not save money once the price difference goes much below 60 cents.
 
kenmyfam

kenmyfam

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Re: How to get better MPG when towing???

Best bet is to leave early, drive at your vehicles optimum cruising speed, avoid harsh accelleration and braking as much as possible, go downjill both ways !!!! LOL......or get a GMC Jimmy like me !!!!!!
It does 17 mpg whatever I do with it !!!!! drive to work and back, highway solo or tow the boat !!!!!
Strange maybe but true !!!!!
No idea about the "run on water" things but you have my 2 cents anyway !!!!
 
bruceb58

bruceb58

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Re: How to get better MPG when towing???

Only way to really compare is to do the exact same route. Bottom line is the BTU content of the two fuels and that is why you wil get over 30% less mileage with the E85. What you calculated from your experience doesn't jive with all the tests that have been done.
 
Silvertip

Silvertip

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Re: How to get better MPG when towing???

The numbers are correct because I've done the MPG calculations manually as well. My trip computer is very accurate. Testing is one thing. Real world is quite another. Lastly, we are "flat-landers" here in the midwest. Our highest hills are the curb-cuts going into parking lots.
 
D

dodgeramsst2003

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Re: How to get better MPG when towing???

Silvertip, if you're numbers make sense to you, and you are saving money, then go with it. You are right on the timing issue as E85 is over 100 octane, and the car does know its running on it due to an ethanol sensor. But it does take a lot more ethanol than it does gas to make the same power regardless of timing. The only real way to take advantage of E85 is to bump the compression ratio, but automakers can't do that as their engines still have to run on regular. I don't currently have an E85 capable vehicle, but my coworker does, and he reports that his mileage drops around 30% when running it. His truck is a suburban and he goes from around 15-16, to around 10-11. The chemical composition of Ethanol, and BTU's per gallon support this. However, E85 isn't always E85 at gas stations. We take samples of all new fuel deliveries at work, and it will vary from around 78-90% ethanol. Ethanol is also hard on engine components, and longevity has yet to be proven.

Chris
 
shorts&chanclas

shorts&chanclas

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Re: How to get better MPG when towing???

Surffx...sorry your post got hijacked into an e85 debate. I was just being a smart ***** about ethanol being a viable solution and the US having no energy policy.
 
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