One thing after another...

[bktheking]

Re: One thing after another...

Make up some leads to swap sides of the stator to the power packs to see if the coils fire on the other bank.

Seriously, you can eliminate the doubt for like $5, if it fires on the opposite bank you'll know the stator is bad. Or just go buy one and take the risk that it's not the stator.

Fluctuation that great shouldn't happen, the test said 150V or more, I think the stator is leaking causing the voltage to read all over the map. Now take that into consideration and put that voltage into the complicated make up of a powerpack, the powerpack is trying to operate off of a fixed voltage.

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

I swapped the wires a few weeks back and got no result. I'm not getting any spark on any of the cylinders except maybe one stray spark at the first contact of the starter. The stator leaking voltage sounds pretty possible. I'm convinced that the stator needs to be replaced now. I just have to find the right time to sneak that purchase. Right now my financial officer is really not in the mood for boat talk nor will she be this time next month or the month after that if you catch my drift (Aunt Flow). Maybe in a few days when she is back to normal I can sweet talk her into letting me get it.

 

[bktheking]

Re: One thing after another...

Ya mine operates the same way, it has nothing to do with anything but spending money on "guy" things. But mine is a bit different, she actually enjoys boating so If I needed to drop $300 to get it up and running it wouldn't be an issue, I spent $600 this summer just on the floor in it alone, she didn't bat an eye.

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

Sorry for the long absence, had the in-laws in town for a couple weeks. Finally got the stator! I am now getting spark on my gap tester. Against my better judgement, I sprayed a shot of starter fluid into the cylinders, hoping to give them a little motivation. I put the plugs in and all I got was a 12 ga. shotgun blast and thats it. This brings me back to that whole trigger magnet thing. Could my schematic be wrong and the magnets were still in the right place before I moved them. Could I have shot myself in the foot? The picture below is scanned from the book I have. The top left picture is the one I have. Notice how it is different than the others. My started out looking like the other three so I changed it to look like the one on the top left.

 

[bktheking]

Re: One thing after another...

Sorry for the long absence, had the in-laws in town for a couple weeks. Finally got the stator! I am now getting spark on my gap tester. Against my better judgement, I sprayed a shot of starter fluid into the cylinders, hoping to give them a little motivation. I put the plugs in and all I got was a 12 ga. shotgun blast and thats it. This brings me back to that whole trigger magnet thing. Could my schematic be wrong and the magnets were still in the right place before I moved them. Could I have shot myself in the foot? The picture below is scanned from the book I have. The top left picture is the one I have. Notice how it is different than the others. My started out looking like the other three so I changed it to look like the one on the top left.

Jeez man, I thought you'd thank the stairway to stator or at least god!!! LOL


Shotgun blast indicates a timing issue, have you set the timing. I don't know enough about trigger magnets but if they affect timing then I'd say yes you did shoot your self in the foot with the 12 gauge blast!!!! Your almost there bro!!!

 

[bktheking]

Re: One thing after another...

Just to add to some research I did for you, this came up on another site:

There are actually 2 sets of magnets under the flywheel. The larger ones on the outer circumference of the flywheel produce the current to run the motor. These are the ones that loosen up and move around a bit more frequently. However their exact position is not so critical to engine performance. I've even seen motors where these magnets are loose and have moved but the engine is still running fine. I believe it's because they create a steady flow of current that does not involve ignition timing. They can be glued back in place if they become loose.

It's the other set of magnets, the ones that form a ring around the inner hub of the flywheel whose exact position is much more critical. That's because those magnets energize the sensor coils that need to fire each spark plug at an exact moment. If those magnets loosen up, engine timing can be very erratic. One moment the magnets are in their correct position and everything is fine. The next moment they rotate out of position and timing can be way off. Then they rotate back into position and everything is fine again. The way you can check this is with a timing light. If the timing mark on the flywheel is jumping around crazily when the motor is misfiring, loose magnets on the inner hub of the flywheel are a definite possibility.

This may be relevant or not to your motor, they mention rotate out of position and timing being way off, I think that's your answer.

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

Yeah you were correct on the stator being the root. I appreciate the advice.


I'll have to pick up a timing light this weekend and give that a shot. How do you set the timing before its running? It won't start, at least not today. In fact it didn't even sputter. Just that one loud backfire and thats it.

Did you take a look at that picture? I looked at it as if I had the fly wheel in my lap with the magnets facing up, so the inner magnets on the hub are the ones that I rotated, and I'm going to assume that my eyeball is not accurate enough to put that magnet back perfectly, but hopefully I can adjust the timing in. My only hope is that I didnt look at the picture the wrong way and they are in 180 degrees backwards because I have no idea how to get that jb weld off.

I feel like I'm so close but I'm still not going to get my hopes up.

 

[bktheking]

Re: One thing after another...

I'll have to pick up a timing light this weekend and give that a shot. How do you set the timing before its running? It won't start, at least not today. In fact it didn't even sputter. Just that one loud backfire and thats it.

Did you take a look at that picture? I looked at it as if I had the fly wheel in my lap with the magnets facing up, so the inner magnets on the hub are the ones that I rotated, and I'm going to assume that my eyeball is not accurate enough to put that magnet back perfectly, but hopefully I can adjust the timing in. My only hope is that I didnt look at the picture the wrong way and they are in 180 degrees backwards because I have no idea how to get that jb weld off.

I feel like I'm so close but I'm still not going to get my hopes up.

E gads, you can't get jbweld off, well maybe with a dremel but you risk breaking the magnets trying to remove them. If they are 180 off can the timer be rotated, if I was there different situation? Maybe Faztbullet would know, I don't have the manual for that motor or the proper timing procedure but a backfire is a sure sign of the timing being off.

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

Yeah thats what I'm afraid of with the j weld. I'll play with it some more tomorrow, but I dont think I can reverse the timer base because it has the linkages hooked up to one side but I may be able to swap just the wires. I will have to look into the firing order to see if its possible.

 

[bktheking]

Re: One thing after another...

Yeah thats what I'm afraid of with the j weld. I'll play with it some more tomorrow, but I dont think I can reverse the timer base because it has the linkages hooked up to one side but I may be able to swap just the wires. I will have to look into the firing order to see if its possible.

Without the manual i'm blind, i'm assuming that the diagram is of the magnets on the flywheel and the keyway slot is the bump in the pic. If they match the pic then it should be ok, look for a timing procedure in your manual, probably out a bit. And the other big question, did you see spark on ALL plugs.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: One thing after another...

If you moved the inner magnet and have the single pack, it will never run. The magnet diagram you used is for dual packs(583605)

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

It does have dual packs. I borrowed my friends timing light, it has an advance knob on the back but I would assume I dont need that. I'll go out in a couple minutes and try to at least see if I'm close. And for the spark on all cylinders... I am getting solid spark on 2 4 5 6 and I'd say maybe 3/4 spark on 1 and 3.

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

So I checked the spark again on all six, and for the 4 seconds I let it turn, I got 4 or 5 sparks on each cylinder. That looked good to me so i put the timing light on it and at first it wasn't sparking at all but then it would give a few flashes and then nothing again. But in those few flashes, I couldn't see the white out mark on the flywheel. So maybe the magnet was correct the first time before I botched it all up. But before I go and do anything else to set me back 10 steps I want to see what y'all have to say about it.

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

I have posted a video on youtube that I just shot with the aide of my wife. I'm not sure why its sideways though. I apologize for the camera work, she didnt really know what she was looking for.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDtA96zhQ8A

 

[bktheking]

Re: One thing after another...

I think at this point the timing light won't help you and all the test's mention the motor running with the timing light involved. Since you have the camera out, can you take a pic of what you moved as far as magnets are concerned? The trigger magnets from all the reading i've done are the heart and soul of the engine timing, if something is out of alignment this thing will NEVER start.

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

Yeah, check back in 20 minutes.

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

The good news is that I can change a flywheel faster than jeff gordons pit crew can change a tire.

I think I did this right...




http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/KBeatty87/boatstuff005.jpg

 

[bktheking]

Re: One thing after another...

The good news is that I can change a flywheel faster than jeff gordons pit crew can change a tire.

I think I did this right...




http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/KBeatty87/boatstuff005.jpg

Looks right to me according to the diagram , now the kicker, you are 1000% certain your plug wires are on right, that could be the other cause of the backfire.

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

Yes. The wires are too short to criss cross and all the other wire plugs have a flat side so they only go on one way. Also, after looking at the video, I got 7 flashes in 2-3 seconds, that means I'm spinning about 210 rpms right. Too low?

 

[bktheking]

Re: One thing after another...

Ok so that rules out plug wires. Just a question about the pic. You marked the slots in the magnet with toothpicks yet the diagram shows notches from the top, yet this is a one piece magnet. I noticed that it looks to me like there is a line to the left of the keyway, is this the reference?