yamaha/nissan

[johntg3]

i currently have a 90Hp 2 stroke and want to upgrade for more power and better economy. i have a choice between a 115 4 stroke yamaha or a 115 2 stroke fuel injected nissan. both are 2010 models. any suggestions?

 

[johntg3]

Re: yamaha/nissan

surely someone can give me some feedback on these motors.

 

[coolguy147]

Re: yamaha/nissan

what kind of boat u got? and whats the max hp rating

 

[hot-dog]

Re: yamaha/nissan

depends what your puting it on and what you want from it.

although im not much of a nissan fan i would probably go with the 2 stroke since it would be faster and lighter, fuel mileage doesnt conceren my very much with a samller motor. i dont know enough about iether motors to say which is more reliable though.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: yamaha/nissan

The Tohatsu/Nissan is far superior in every possible way on this one with one exception. The Yamaha is a wee bit quieter.

 

[jevery]

Re: yamaha/nissan

BY ?Far superior in every possible way? are we talking like 10-20% Lighter, Faster, Longer Warranty, Better Fuel Economy, More Reliable, Larger Dealer Network, Higher STAR Rating? Because I?m not seeing these advantages. I can?t even find any Nissan performance reports to compare numbers.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: yamaha/nissan

Yamaha is clearly the leader in pretentious owners who think they are superior in every possible way

The Tohatsu is faster, both at top end and hole shot, has better fuel economy at everything except a dead idle and is lighter.

The Yamaha is cheaper to purchase and they do have twice the number of dealers today...With the record number of dealer failures that will be occurring by the end of the year I suspect that that will shrink to a 20% non advantage. What possible difference does the number of dealers make? If it made a difference then Mercury would be the best as they have double the number of dealers that Yamaha has.

Reliability, I give the edge to Tohatsu. That ones a personal opinion.

 

[johntg3]

Re: yamaha/nissan

thank you all for your comments. i am upgrading from a 90 Hp 2 stroke yamaha to one of these motors for my 22ft. pontoon.



Guru
what kind of difference can i expect as for as economy and speed with the nissan.

 

[johntg3]

Re: yamaha/nissan

forgot to ask what would be a good starting point for prop size.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: yamaha/nissan

It relative to RPM rather than a speed on fuel economy. At a fast idle of 1500 rpm the Yamaha uses about 15% less fuel than the Tohatsu/Nissan. At 2000 rpm I can't tell the difference with my 115 TLDI. Above that the Tohatsu uses less fuel, but not enough too worry about. The real difference seems to pop out at 5200 RPM and higher with the the Tohatsu burning close to a gallon less per hour.

If you are talking speed alone, with the same pitch 12 pitch prop on both models, The Yamaha is going to be slower to achieve any speed and will run about 4 mph less at wide open throttle.

Honestly though, the Yamaha is great engine and we are talking very small differences in performance. Feelings about "better" are highly subjective and almost always based on brand loyalty rather than any quantifiable real difference. Actually the only reason I said Tohatsu was superior to Yamaha was to see who would have a stroke

 

[JoLin]

Re: yamaha/nissan

"Actually the only reason I said Tohatsu was superior to Yamaha was to see who would have a stroke "

Actually, I believe I just had 2 strokes... or was it 4?...

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: yamaha/nissan

You may have just hit on the solution to the age all debate on 2 stroke versus 4 stroke. Bare with me on this people....As the number of strokes increase so does the risk of increased problems up to and certainly including, catastrophic failure

 

[hot-dog]

Re: yamaha/nissan

i honestly believe there is no possible way to beat a 2 stroke as far as very long term reliability. a major thing with the four strokes is the valve train requires maintenance that no one ever does to them when they get older. there is also allot more moving parts, or more possible failures to happen with a four stroke. a 2 stroke is less picky about things like loose tolerances, overheating, low compression, or running water through them and just general abuse. for most people a 4 stroke will be what they consider reliable. if you want something that will truly last forever, you cant beat a 2 stroke.

beside that they will always be much more efficient in power vs displacement. don't kid yourself guys, the new 4 stroke craze is because of emissions. all the advertisement seems to get people to believe their more reliable for some reason.

plus you cant beat the smell and sound of a firing up a 2 stroke in the morning

 

[Rancherlee]

Re: yamaha/nissan

i honestly believe there is no possible way to beat a 2 stroke as far as very long term reliability. a major thing with the four strokes is the valve train requires maintenance that no one ever does to them when they get older. there is also allot more moving parts, or more possible failures to happen with a four stroke. a 2 stroke is less picky about things like loose tolerances, overheating, low compression, or running water through them and just general abuse. for most people a 4 stroke will be what they consider reliable. if you want something that will truly last forever, you cant beat a 2 stroke.

beside that they will always be much more efficient in power vs displacement. don't kid yourself guys, the new 4 stroke craze is because of emissions. all the advertisement seems to get people to believe their more reliable for some reason.

plus you cant beat the smell and sound of a firing up a 2 stroke in the morning

If both are properly maintained a 4 stroke WILL outlast a 2 stroke, that being said 99% of people will never use up the "service" life of either a 4 stroke or a 2 stroke. A 2 stroke with smaller displacement is working each cylinder/rings/bearings harder to make the same amount of power. The pistons/rings are getting hit with a power stroke every revolution. Also The current DFI 2 strokes are using a direct oiling system that injects a very small amount of oil directly to each bearing to meet the emission standard they are being run on the "ragged edge" of burning up with how lean a fuel/air mixture they have and oil ratio, its a good thing that computers are controlling the whole thing and oil has come along way to keep them alive. Both are good engine and the lean burn 4 strokes coming out now (Honda and Suzuki) have the same punch as a DFI 4 stroke and as good if not better fuel economy. Older and current EFI 4 strokes are running the equivalent of 1980's automotive EFI system with NO oxygen sensor and they have plenty room for improvement. DFI on the other hand is pretty much end of the road for 2 stroke unless there is a leap in ceramic technology to allow even leaner fuel/oil mixtures to further clean them up. Choose what ever engine you like and has the BEST support in your area. All the current 2 stroke DFI and 4 stroke EFI engines are very comparable now.

 

[jevery]

Re: yamaha/nissan

Yamaha is clearly the leader in pretentious owners who think they are superior in every possible way

Maybe you should check the definition of pretentious. I made no claims.

The Tohatsu is faster, both at top end and hole shot, has better fuel economy at everything except a dead idle and is lighter.

Links please. Or Is this just opinion?

What possible difference does the number of dealers make? If it made a difference then Mercury would be the best as they have double the number of dealers that Yamaha has.

Many would consider a large established dealer network essential ? Not that it makes the engine ?best, ? but because it make the engine serviceable and sustainable over time.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: yamaha/nissan

"BY ?Far superior in every possible way? are we talking like 10-20% Lighter, Faster, Longer Warranty, Better Fuel Economy, More Reliable, Larger Dealer Network, Higher STAR Rating? Because I?m not seeing these advantages. I can?t even find any Nissan performance reports to compare numbers"."

The "pretentious" shoe fits in your case. Your intent was obvious and you need to go back and look at that definition yourself.

"Links please. Or Is this just opinion?"

Oh please. I am the link. I have used both and the have the private data on the Tohatsu, the Yamaha is publicly available. Play that link card with someone else who isn't in the business.

"Many would consider a large established dealer network essential ? Not that it makes the engine ?best, ? but because it make the engine serviceable and sustainable over time"

What's the magic number for the dealer network? Dealer network size is not an issue for any brand. Geographic location of a dealer in relation to the geographic location a owner of product is the only relevant point. Since Honda and Suzuki have smaller dealer networks than Tohatsu please feel free to point that out in every post you make in the future regarding those brands.

Your bias is showing. I'm not going to participate in this degenerating any further...Take your best shot, I'm not going to reply.

 

[hot-dog]

Re: yamaha/nissan

If both are properly maintained a 4 stroke WILL outlast a 2 stroke, that being said 99% of people will never use up the "service" life of either a 4 stroke or a 2 stroke.

i could argue this until im blue in the face, im not going to waist my time.

 

[jevery]

Re: yamaha/nissan

As with all public forums, posts are subject to scrutiny, thus I try to base arguments only on verifiable data. The single test report that I can fine is this, for a Tohatsu MD115, however the specs for the Tohatsu are identical to the Nissan NSD115. The numbers in the report are fairly impressive ? 6.1 MPG and 46 MPH on an American Skiff Coral Bay 19 CC. While there is no direct comparison, there is a Performance Report of a boat very similar in weight, beam, and layout, the Nautic Bay Nautic Star 910 rigged with a Yamaha F115, and comparison shows a little better fuel efficiency and top speed for the Tohatsu. The only negatives I can find for the Nissan/Tohatsu 115 is that it appears louder than comparable 4-strokes. I can?t document noise levels for the F115, but the larger F150 is quieter at 61 dBA vs 70 at idle, and 95 dBA vs 99 at WOT.

The Tohatsu also has high emissions compared to the competition.

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