Won't run on plane

[211libwtfo]

Took out the 1988 211 liberator yesterday ran great then started to miss a lil on a 10 mile cruise up river then on the way back it would plane up then shortly after would back fire and die. Lil hard start but would, It would only run at a fast idle for 10 miles. I'm thinking timing but not sure. Any suggestions. Thanks newbie here to a bigger boat.

 

[jimmbo]

Could also be plugged up fuel passages in the carb.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Took out the 1988 211 liberator yesterday ran great then started to miss a lil on a 10 mile cruise up river then on the way back it would plane up then shortly after would back fire and die. Lil hard start but would, It would only run at a fast idle for 10 miles. I'm thinking timing but not sure. Any suggestions. Thanks newbie here to a bigger boat.

Hey, I have one of those! (mine is a 1987 211 Liberator!!)

Things to check will be fuel related. On mine, I removed the fuel tank completely cleaned it out. luckily, mine was free of water and debris. I did replace the vent hose and through deck fitting and I put a new gage sender in it..

Fuel pickup screen. you have to remove the rear seat (completely) and remove the cover over the rear of the tank. There's a fine mesh screen at the end of the fuel pickup inside the tank. while you have that out, you can replace the anti-siphon check valve.

Fuel vent. If the vent is plugged with debris or bugs etc, the fuel pump will not be able to draw fuel out of the tank for very long until the pump suction equals the fuel tank vacuum. if you remove the fuel filler cap right when the engine dies, and you hear a loud sucking sound..... It's air rushing back into the tank!!

Then inspect/replace the flexible hose that goes from the anti-siphon valve to the fuel filter. (Those hoses if old enough will slough off debris inside and it'll end up clogging your fuel filter)

Check/replace your fuel pump. If it's old, change it. If I still had the one I removed from mine, I would send it to you. But I don't know what I did with it...(I don't have the 460 anymore) probably wouldn't be a bad idea to replace it anyway.(the pump that is!)

You should have stainless steel lines from the filter to the pump and to the carb, but I would ensure that they are clear of any debris.

Now, before you do any of this, disconnect the fuel line at the carb, remove the spark plugs so the engine will turn freely, remove power from the "+" connection of the coil so it doesn't "spark", and crank the engine to see if you have good fuel flow from the fuel pump.

Another thing you can do is get a small portable fuel tank and hook it to the suction side of the filter and draw fuel from it.

If you don't know the history of the carburetor, it might not be a bad idea to rebuild it. But unless you have a lot of "stuff' in the tank, filter is full of "stuff" the carb might be ok. I took mine apart after 20 years or so and the only thing wrong with it was the gaskets I destroyed taking it apart. Your carb should be a Holley 4160 series carb. They are very easy to rebuild and you can get a kit at NAPA.

I wouldn't immediately assume it's the carb though. start with troubleshooting the fuel delivery to it first!

Regards,


Rick

 

[211libwtfo]

Thanks the boat is new to me I jus filled the gas tank prolly to full it was at the cap. I will definitely use this info on t-shooting. Should I also look into an electronic ignition.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Thanks the boat is new to me I jus filled the gas tank prolly to full it was at the cap. I will definitely use this info on t-shooting. Should I also look into an electronic ignition.

I wouldn't right now, My 460 went almost 20 years running points. They worked flawlessly.

One other thing though, I was troubleshooting a low MAX rpm problem. and checked everything including compression. I found that my camshaft had more than a few flat lobes. several valves were only opening slightly. It wasn't enough to prevent running at medium speeds, 3000-3500 or so but when I went to WOT, it would only turn about 4000 RPM. (when previously able to turn 5000RPM) It was very subtle.

I also had leaking riser gaskets that were allowing water to drain back into open exhaust valves after shutdown.

You likely do not have that problem right now.... BUT, if you haven't inspected the risers and manifolds (and gaskets) and the previous owner didn't or cannot tell you when he did, it is not a bad idea to pull the risers and inspect/replace the gaskets every few years or so.

Little leaks don't hurt a thing if the boat is run every day (unless you get a hydrolock) . The water is purged out of the engine pretty much immediately and what little gets past the rings and into the oil is evaporated out quickly too.

The "perfect storm" however, is those gaskets leaking and the boat is put away for the winter with that water sitting in cylinders for several months.

Cheers,

Rick

 

[lasko1]

I recently had the similar type of performance on my FourWinns 1988 4.3 OMC. It became hard to start especially when the engine was warm. It then began to stumble/miss at higher rpms and then finally got to the point where on the way in (10 miles), I could only run 10mph and was thankful to make it back to the dock. If I tried to go any faster, she'd just want to die out until I quickly put it back in neutral. I did not have any backfire issues but I didn't leave the throttle at WOT long either.

I checked all my fuel delivery possibilities:

• Pickup screen
• Anti-siphon valve
• fuel filters
• fuel pump discharge pressure (6psi)

And they checked out ok.

After changing points, condenser, and rotor, the boat fires right up and runs at full rpm fine.

The last time I had hard starting issues, it ended up being the same thing...points,condenser, rotor. And back then, I had gone ~4yrs between tune-ups. I recently found out from the knowledgeable folks on here that is way too long between tune-ups. I will be doing mine at least every other year from now on. By the way, the tune up kit (points,condenser, rotor) was $25.

Something to think about if you haven't done a tune-up in a while.

 

[211libwtfo]

I checked coil cap and rotor plugs wires electrical connections. I remembered some filter do hickey thingama jig that came with the boat says fuel filter separater found on engine the old one was FULL of water. Haven't ran yet but 99.9% sure that's it. Any more than high idle throttle it was pulling water with the gas. Welcome to not fishing boats 101. Thanks for all the info though Liberator wtfo "never idle" the boats name, was told it's bad luck to change the name so it'll stay.

 

[HT32BSX115]

I remembered some filter do hickey thingama jig that came with the boat says fuel filter separater found on engine the old one was FULL of water. Haven't ran yet but 99.9% sure that's it.

Are you saying your water separator was full of water?

 

[211libwtfo]

Fortunately or unfortunately yes, I've only had this boat a week or anything like it. Is the simplest thing the most obvious

 

[Lou C]

If it (the filter) was full of water you are going to need to drain the tank and get it cleaned out, and find out how the water got in in the first place and eliminate that cause. I had a similar problem and it turned out that the problem was a sticky anti siphon valve. Fixed that 12 years ago and haven't had the same problem since. I have found I can go approx 4-5 seasons on a set of points & condenser. Cap and rotor I do more often because of the salt air corrosion.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Your 88 Lib is almost identical to my '87 . You can remove that tank fairly easily. Now having said that, you should be able to just clean it out.

Remove your back bench seat and remove the screws holding the seat structure to the floor and pull the entire thing out...... remove the floor panel over the tank to expose the tank.

Remove the fuel gage sender (pick up a new sender gasket and 6 screws from West marine etc) Get yourself about 20ft of clear vinyl 3/4"-1" hose and use it to vacuum the tank through the gage sender hole.... put a ball valve (brass or plastic) on the other end of the hose so your helper can turn it off when switching containers once they're full.

Put a 12-24" piece of plastic pipe on the end of the hose you're going to "stuff" into the gage hole to vacuum out the tank. fill the hose with gasoline before starting to make the siphon work better. DO ALL OF THIS OUTSIDE with plenty of ventilation and have a halon type fire extinguisher handy!

I strongly advise AGAINST using the "mouth" method of starting the siphon!!! Closing the valve, Filling the hose with gasoline first, placing your containers on the ground provides more than enough head-pressure to sustain a siphon. The lower you can place your containers, the stronger the suction. Like doing this on a driveway that is at the top of a hill and using hose long enough to get several feet below the suction point.

Having said all that, placing the cans on ground is adequate, you still have a couple of feet from the bottom of the tank and the floor You move maximum liquid with a 3/4" to 1" clear hose (use the thick wall clear vinyl hose so it doesn't kink) You can get all this stuff at home depot.

Lastly, jack the bow up 18-24 inches, so all the water and debris in the tank goes to the back near the opening for easier vacuuming! (If it's already full of fuel, siphon some out with the boat level so it doesn't pour out through the open sender hole!)

I removed my tank the first time I did it because I needed the tank out to move the bulkhead forward between the back of the tank and the engine compartment to make more room in the engine compartment. I think I moved it 3 or 4 inches, which placed it right up against the tank.

As Lou said, you'll also need to determine where the water came from in the first place. (it likely leaked in through the vent fitting or fuel filler. It's possible that you got a slug of water in the fuel but not as likely)

Do you have thru hull exhaust? (if so, PM me about Capts Call!)

Cheers,


Rick

 

[211libwtfo]

It does have through hull with 6" tips. Under swim deck. I'm not sure how long the old one was on. And I have put an eyeball on the sending unit, was alil discouraged seeing a metal tank. Any idea how many gallons it is. It's mostly full. Was gonna run it this weekend and remove filter and check.

 

[211libwtfo]

Before problem occurred I had boat parked at a dock with the stern up river on the Mississippi with a current of about 4-6 mph.

 

[HT32BSX115]

It does have through hull with 6" tips. Under swim deck. I'm not sure how long the old one was on. And I have put an eyeball on the sending unit, was alil discouraged seeing a metal tank. Any idea how many gallons it is. It's mostly full. Was gonna run it this weekend and remove filter and check.

Yes, it should be an aluminum tank with a capacity of 44gallons. Don't know why you might be discouraged at the aluminum. (I don't think ABS was available in 88) Fiberglass tanks have problems all their own, especially with ethanol (E10) fuels.

The rest of the fuel system won't have a problem with it though. I have been running ethanol E10 ever since it's been available. Never had any problem with it at all!
The floor panel covering it is probably about 24" wide and 4 or 5 feet long if I remember correctly. I only had my tank out once. But it probably wouldn't be a bad idea for you to pull that floor panel and get in there to not only inspect the tank but you can then replace your fuel vent hose if it's cracked. Once you get the floor panel up, you can easily remove your gage sender and fuel pickup. That will allow you to replace that anti-siphon check valve and theUSCG type A1 fuel line from the tank to the filter.

Pulling the pickup tube will also allow you to carefully clean the fuel pickup screen. If there's any contamination in the tank, that screen may be partially clogged.

 

[211libwtfo]

Thanks a bunch very informative. My wife's back is messed up so I may or may not get a chance to run the LIB if not I will be pulling up these panels and checking the pick up screen. When I pulled the drain plug last time out absolutely no water came out. But at any rate I am thoroughly pleased with this boat its power and the way it handles big waves. We cut right through 5'ers and on the mighty Mississippi that's about as big as they get.

 

[HT32BSX115]

I've had my 211 Lib since 2005 and my brother bought it new in 87. It was pretty fast with the 460, on the order of 60mph at 5000 with a 20p stainless.
(it was a 19p, re-pitched and cupped to 20p) It also had thru-hull exhaust but in the early 90's he had CaptsCall installed. (I subsequently removed it when I swapped engines) I thought it sounded cool......but everybody else hated it!!

I like the way mine rides too. I hear the 241 and 261 are even better in "big" water!

 

[211libwtfo]

Oh yea. Everyone is looking when you pull in the marina. Nice and loud Love that sound. Ours has the ballistic 23p. We was about 62 but I'm not proficient with the trim Inconjunction with the tabs.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Oh yea. Everyone is looking when you pull in the marina. Nice and loud Love that sound. Ours has the ballistic 23p. We was about 62 but I'm not proficient with the trim Inconjunction with the tabs.

What is your full throttle RPM?

 

[211libwtfo]

Not sure tach is shot. Most of the gauges are bad, temp and fuel(maybe) the only ones that work. But the motor wasn't screaming like crazy soo I'd guess a lil less than 5k. I was side by side my buddies 23' power play for a couple miles, backed off WOT a lil bit.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Not sure tach is shot. Most of the gauges are bad, temp and fuel(maybe) the only ones that work. But the motor wasn't screaming like crazy soo I'd guess a lil less than 5k. I was side by side my buddies 23' power play for a couple miles, backed off WOT a lil bit.

Your 460 should top out at 4600. (max recommended RPM) My brother used to run his at 5000....which I think contributed to the flat camshaft it had when I got it. I could only get about 4200 after I tuned it up and discovered that I had several valves that weren't opening much at all!

Measure your speed using GPS also. Can't trust a boat speedo until you verify it! There was a guy over on Offshoreonly forum that installed a built 460 in his and said he could "bury the speedometer" at 80mph! be careful. The 211 chine walks at high speed and gets pretty squrrelly