Where is Boom at when you need him? Or anyone else.

MTboatguy

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
8,988
Hey Boom, I have a question for you about Water pressure tanks, or anyone else that knows.

As I posted earlier this year, my bladder in the pressure tank broke this winter, spring is here, and it is time to replace it, so I was wondering what is the minimum sized tank I should look at.

Currently the tank I have is a 44 gallon tank, but in looking at specifications of my well, I was wondering if I could go smaller, or if I need to go larger.

Well spec's are 498 feet deep, static water level is 40 feet below land level, 3/4 HP pump with a flow rate of 2 GPM(draw down 120 PH), 7 faucets in the home, the switch is set at 30-50LBs

So any insight anyone can offer before I purchase the new tank?

Thanks.
 

joed

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Sep 28, 2002
Messages
1,135
40 gallon is about standard. The size of the tank determines the duty cycle of the pump. A larger tank the pump will run longer when it comes on but it will take longer before it comes on when water is used. A smaller tank will ump up to pressure faster but will start sooner when water is used.
 

rbh

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
7,939
Just out of curiosity, how many people is it going to take to drag the old tank out from under the house and then put the new tank back in? (I remember you saying that would be an issue)
 

MTboatguy

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
8,988
rbh,

It is going to me, myself and I, I probably will just push it out of the way and go from there, I still can't believe it has been so long since I installed this one, I am not quite as agile as I was 20 years ago..
 

Tim Frank

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,346
Could you add one of the old style air/volume controls?
They worked fine before bladder tanks.
Some maintenance, but might be less of a hassle than replacing the whole tank.....and a lot cheaper.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,537
I was talking to a friend at work who has a well and he was saying that many people don't use those bladder tanks anymore and that there are newer style pumps that are used.
 

MTboatguy

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
8,988
Could you add one of the old style air/volume controls?
They worked fine before bladder tanks.
Some maintenance, but might be less of a hassle than replacing the whole tank.....and a lot cheaper.

Tim,

I am not familar with that system, would you happen to have any links I could look at?
 

MTboatguy

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
8,988
I was talking to a friend at work who has a well and he was saying that many people don't use those bladder tanks anymore and that there are newer style pumps that are used.

Bruce, I really don't want to replace the pump it is only a couple of years old and it is sitting 495 feet below ground level, the last time I had to replace it, it cost close to $3500 bucks!
 

Tim Frank

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,346

MTboatguy

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
8,988
Tim,

I am please with the tank I have, I was told it would have to be replaced at about 8 years and it lasted 17 so I got my moneys worth out of it.

Thanks for the links..
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Hey Boom, I have a question for you about Water pressure tanks, or anyone else that knows.

As I posted earlier this year, my bladder in the pressure tank broke this winter, spring is here, and it is time to replace it, so I was wondering what is the minimum sized tank I should look at.

Currently the tank I have is a 44 gallon tank, but in looking at specifications of my well, I was wondering if I could go smaller, or if I need to go larger.

Well spec's are 498 feet deep, static water level is 40 feet below land level, 3/4 HP pump with a flow rate of 2 GPM(draw down 120 PH), 7 faucets in the home, the switch is set at 30-50LBs

So any insight anyone can offer before I purchase the new tank?

Thanks.

Right here, Bro! Whoa! Who spent all that money to drill 498 ft when the static water level is at 40 ft? I do not understand (draw down 120 PH)? Without looking at a chart and without knowing how far down your pump is installed it is hard to say what the ground level GPM's of your 3/4 hp is, but I question the 2 GPM. That sounds way too low unless you have a miserable recovery rate in the well, while the pump is running. Most residential pumps are sized (taking into account head and water availability) to deliver 10 GPM at the point of use.

That being said, there is a minimum tank size that you want to use. It is calculated to keep the well pump from turning on and off excessively. Pumps like to run. It wears them out to keep starting up. The rule is that you should have a minimum of 2 minutes of pump run time to refill the draw down water volume in a pressure tank. The amount of draw down gallons, for any given size tank, is a factor of the pump switch setting and the tank precharge pressure. So for example, if you have an 86 gallon (total volume) P/ tank with a switch set to operate between 40 and 60 lbs, that tank will have about 22 gallons of draw down. If the well pump can deliver 10 gpm, that gives you a 2.2 minute pump run time to refill the tank. That is the minimum that is considered reasonable for the longevity of the well pump. A lower switch setting will require a lower pre-charge in the tank and alter the draw down volume upward, in any given size tank.

Now, if you think your well output is really a 2 gpm, I would try to consult any well pump records (should be on file with the pump company that installed the pump or the county when the well was permitted. OR you could disconnect the line before the pressure tank, get some 5 gallon buckets and time the flow yourself.

If your flow is actually 2 gpm's and you cannot reasonable alter that, then you would not really concentrate on the minimum size pressure tank but on the maximum size or combination of tanks you can accomodate. There is no downside to having too much except for space constraints and cost. The more tankage you have (properly balanced) the more drawdown you would have available to compensate for the low well output.

Further more there is no practical reason not to run your system at a setting of 40/60. You can either adjust the switch you have OR get a new one. If you go to a Home Depot, you will find Square D switches in both 30/50 and 40/60. The switches are identical except for factory settings and labling. 40/60 is considered to be the standard today. If the plumbing is sound, I have adjusted many systems (for customers) to run at 50/70. There is nothing in the home that will not easily live with that and your faucet performance is so much better. You just have to remember to adjust your pressure tank precharge (with tank empty) to 2 psi below the pump cut in pressure.
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Tim,

I am not familar with that system, would you happen to have any links I could look at?

A PITA, MT. You do not want to go there ESPECIALLY if you have iron in your water. Bladders are best and the tanks are really not all that expensive. With a bladder tank, in the event of a power outage, you can run your water till there is none left and when the power comes back on, your tank precharge is intact and the pump will simply fill the tank back up and you are off and running. With any type of non bladder tank when it runs out of water it empties it's precharge air out your faucets.

Also if your well has iron in it, any style of tank that allows air and water to mix will start the oxidation of that iron into a form that your water softener will no long remove. If you have an auto air fill style system, that is even worse.
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
I was talking to a friend at work who has a well and he was saying that many people don't use those bladder tanks anymore and that there are newer style pumps that are used.


I do not think that is true, bruce. Even the relatively new variable speed well pumps use pressure tanks and bladder style tanks are still de rigueur.
 

MTboatguy

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
8,988
Boom,

It is actually 2 gpm as the well log shows, the well was drilled in 1972, it is not unusual to have deep wells in the mountains where I live. But again, I have all the paper work for the well when it was drilled, in 1972 it cost over $3000 to drill this well, so I can't image what it would cost these days, a buddy of mine that lives 2 miles away from me and about 500 feet less in elevation paid over $20K for his 300 foot well about 5 years ago. I have been looking at tanks at HD and the same tank I bought for $300 back in '98 now is over $700 dollars. Now I did have a guy tell me, I could put a second 20 gallon tank inline with them one and save some money, which I don't know if that is true, but he said, put it on the house feed side so the larger tank is completely full when it switches off, but as I said, I really don't know.
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Something is wrong with those tank prices, MT. I looked at HD online and the most expensive tank was $549.00 That was for a big 119 gal tank, the biggest. Smaller tanks were a lot less. You can chain as many tanks together (of any mix of sizes) as you have room for. They will all empty and fill at the same time. There is no difference between a single large tank or multiple tanks. Their will be no filling of one vs the other(s). The more total volume that you have, the more drawdown and the longer the pump gets to rest.

If you have a current tank that is water logged and in a difficult place to remove, remove the core of the schrader valve and drill several holes in the bottom and or sides. Then roll it around as necessary until all the water dribbles out of it. Then it will be a relative piece of cake to remove.

You can thank Richard Nixon (in part) for the difference in prices between 1972 and today. He removed the last of the precious metals ties to our currency.
 
Last edited:

MTboatguy

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
8,988
Ok,

I just looked at HD and see they have a 44 gallon Water Works vertical that will fit under the house for $287. I was looking for Well-x-trol which is what has always been installed on this system and they are running over $700 The only problems we have ever had on this system, even with it being under the house, is the darn pressure switch has a tendency to freeze when it gets really cold, but we figured out out to fix that by running the dryer vent hose over to it and when the system stops working in the winter, we just turn the dryer on for a little while, and it thaws the pressure switch out. I am still trying to figure out how to put this thing inside the house!
 

MTboatguy

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
8,988
Well if I move it, I will move the power, the pressure switch and the tank, I will keep the all together.
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Ok,

I just looked at HD and see they have a 44 gallon Water Works vertical that will fit under the house for $287. I was looking for Well-x-trol which is what has always been installed on this system and they are running over $700 The only problems we have ever had on this system, even with it being under the house, is the darn pressure switch has a tendency to freeze when it gets really cold, but we figured out out to fix that by running the dryer vent hose over to it and when the system stops working in the winter, we just turn the dryer on for a little while, and it thaws the pressure switch out. I am still trying to figure out how to put this thing inside the house!

Does anything else freeze under the house? That is odd because if your under house is well sealed, ground temperature should keep things from freezing. The cold, all by itself, should not affect the switch operation. The only exception would be if the small amount of water in the switch nipple itself is freezing up. Small amounts of water will give up their heat more quickly (and freeze) before vessels that have a larger amount of water in them.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,537
I do not think that is true, bruce. Even the relatively new variable speed well pumps use pressure tanks and bladder style tanks are still de rigueur.

In my friend's setup, they still have a well tank which pumps to a storage tank. He then has another pump which is what I was mentioning. I don't know much about all of this but he just happened to mention what he is installing a few weeks ago and this subject jogged my memory.

I know less about wells and pumps as you do about computers. :)
 
Top