What are we missing?

MTribe08

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
680
Hi Gang,

I'm helping a friend find a boat for him and his family. He hasn't put nearly the amount of time that I have on this site reading your advice on what to look for when purchasing something and so I'm trying to steer him in the right direction here.

I came across an add in craigslist for a 1991 19' Monterey open bow 4.3L Merc. $3,000 The add was very vague and had no pictures, but I called him and we went to take a look. The boat had zero signs of deck rot..solid everywhere. The interior was in great shape for its age and the engine and drive look very clean with no indication of peeling paint from an over heat.

So, we offered the guy some non-refundable money to take the boat home tonight and bring it to the water in the morning. Wanted to get a real good look and check the oil conditions and look for other problems. He agreed and let us take it.

The good:
1)Very solid Deck
2)Interior is in good condition
3) 4.3L Engine appears to be well taken care of.
4)Gel Coat could use a buffing but is actually in very nice condition
5)Brand New Prop
6)The Hull is is in good shape and shows no sign of any current or previous damage
7)Trailer is solid, bunks and winch in good shape.
8)Lower unit oil is in good shape with no signs of water intrusion
9)Bellows look solid with no signs of rot or cracking.
10) Beat on the transom quite a bit and is very solid.
12) has a new CD player installed.
13)Trim motor works great with no problems lowering or raising the drive.

The Bad:
1)Carpet is pretty worn and needs to be replaced.
2)The previous owner had a trolling motor mounted on the bow. The holes need to be filled in and smoothed out.
3)The outdrive has a chunk of the cavitation missing from a rock/log incident.
The prop spins nice and free and the shaft shows no sign of being bent and otherwise appears ok. But not sure what to look for other than that??
4) Some cracking just below the windshield on the passenger side..maybe a half dollar in size.
5)Speakers need to be replaced
6) Will need to get a new bimini top.
7)Bilge pump does not appear to be working.

Concerns/Questions
1)Will the missing piece of the cavitation plate affect performance? Is it possible to fix or maybe just put some sort of aftermarket fin on there?
2) the boat has been sitting for about 2 1/2 months and the oil in the engine looks and smells ok(no signs of water) but the level is high? Could this be due to it sitting for a while? We will watch the oil pressure closely tomorrow.
3)Can't find a lower unit reservoir on the motor, did the Merc's not come with one in 1991?

Pricing:
He is asking $3,000
Nada Value: 2000-low retail
2300-Average retail

The boat looks to be very well taken care of..we are told the previous owner to this one was the original owner and only used it to fish in and stored it in doors otherwise.
If the boat runs well on the lake and you guys seem to think it sounds ok..we are thinking that $2,500 would be a fair price. Thoughts?

Please chime in quick if you have any thoughts..we are taking it out mid morning and said we would have the boat and or Money back shortly after.

Thanks for your time,
David
Here are some pictures
taqzog.jpg

24bt9wk.jpg

10zy64i.jpg

33zb41d.jpg

nunf4.jpg

24ecb6a.jpg
 

Bob_VT

Moderator & Unofficial iBoats Historian
Staff member
Joined
May 19, 2001
Messages
26,026
Re: What are we missing?

Looks nice.

That piece missing on the cavatation plate can be fairly easy to have a piece welded in. I would not hesitate to have it repaired.

Looking good and you seem to have some good plans. A water test is great.

How about compression test?
Any Maintenance records for the impellar, oil changes, or trailer wheel bearings/tires. That would be a plus in my book.

CD player and speakers are cheap (and thats why they always break ;) )

Carpet is not my first choice but if you want carpet it is a good DIY project.

A cracked windshield could cost over $1000 easy.....
Worn carpet a few hundred.........
outdrive repair probably a $100-150

Negotiate! Work closer to the average NADA ;)

Good luck
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
70,587
Re: What are we missing?

Ayuh,... The anticav-plate was busted by a Whaletail,..
I can see the holes where it was bolted on the remaining side,...
Yes, it's repairable...

A Compression Test will give a pretty good idea of the motor's condition....

91 I believe is the change-over year for the Alpha 1/ Alpha 1, Gen.II....
This 1 appears to be the Alpha 1,... So no remote oil bottle...

Generally, it's a nice lookin' boat...
 

Bart Sr.

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jul 26, 2002
Messages
1,603
Re: What are we missing?

Looks nice.

That piece missing on the cavatation plate can be fairly easy to have a piece welded in. I would not hesitate to have it repaired.

Looking good and you seem to have some good plans. A water test is great.

How about compression test?
Any Maintenance records for the impellar, oil changes, or trailer wheel bearings/tires. That would be a plus in my book.

CD player and speakers are cheap (and thats why they always break ;) )

Carpet is not my first choice but if you want carpet it is a good DIY project.

A cracked windshield could cost over $1000 easy.....
Worn carpet a few hundred.........
outdrive repair probably a $100-150

Negotiate! Work closer to the average NADA ;)

Good luck

Well said.

I personally would be worried about the outdrive.What happened to break the cav plate and require a "brand new prop"???

You should also hook up the muffs and start it in the driveway before leaving this morning.You may find out a few good/bad things before hitting the water.

Good Luck.
 

Bob_VT

Moderator & Unofficial iBoats Historian
Staff member
Joined
May 19, 2001
Messages
26,026
Re: What are we missing?

Ayuh,... The anticav-plate was busted by a Whaletail,..
I can see the holes where it was bolted on the remaining side,...
Yes, it's repairable...

Good catch! I missed the holes (too early in the morning ;)) I am willing to bet that someone tried to use a whaletail as a step which is a good method of destruction......... or backing into something either in water or on land....
 

MTribe08

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
680
This morning

This morning

Hi guys,
Well we got out here this morning, put some fresh gas in the tank and got the lines primed. We did notice it kind of laboring when turning over, but did get it fired off.

The engine runs very smooth, and flows water nicely.. However, there is a fuel leak coming from the center gasket in the middle of the fuel pump. Leaks pretty good only when the motor is running.

Whatdaya think? Never dealt with this..are we looking at a new pump or gasket??
Thanks
 

superpop

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
869
Re: What are we missing?

The laboring to start could be a carb out of adjustment or maybe hungry for gas, which may or may not be related to the gas leak. I would do a compression check of the motor, warm it up and check the oil again. I had a 4.3L vortec Volvo set up in my last boat and they are real reliable motors, mine always labored to start if it had not been run for several months, but then it was fine. For the price, that seems fair but I do not know the local market there. In Seattle it would be gone within 5 minutes of posting at that price. If the motor has good compression and the drive is good and there is no rot, then that is a very good deal in my opinion. Stuff like fuel pumps and seals are something you should expect to have go bad over time on a boat that old, I would not let that kind of stuff stand in your way of buying though.
 

superpop

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
869
Re: What are we missing?

Also, on your list of bads you mention holes for a trolling motor that need to be filled, I would just get some good sealer and nice stainless screws and put a little sealer in each hole and then fill it with the stainless screws. Much easier then doing a patch job. Also, is the crack you mention, in the windshield glass or on the fiberglass near the windshield. Windshields on a boat are very expensive unless you can find one used.
 

MTribe08

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
680
Re: What are we missing?

Thank you to those that chimed in and helped out. We've been gone all day and I didn't have access to the net.

After we got the boat running and noticed the fuel leak, we decided to take it down to a local Boat Mechanic that has been in our area for over 30yrs to have him take a look.

He tried to tighten down the retaining screws on the fuel pump, but still had a leak, so it was determined that it needed to be replaced. As I noted earlier, the oil level was at least a quart overfilled if not more, but there was no sign of water. He noted that the leaking fuel pump was filling the crank case with fuel, so a oil change would be needed as well.

We decided to have the mechanic right us up an estimate as to what it would cost to get the boat totally serviced and ready for the water.

-New Fuel Pump
-Fix cavitation plate(a log was the culprit, the prop spun it up into a fin that
was mounted..NICE CATCH BONDO!...and broke the piece off.
-Do a total service on the engine and drive
*New fluids in engine and drive
*new impeller
*service gimble bearing and u-joints
*Align engine
*inspect Bellows

Total with Parts and Labor was about $700. We just felt better about the whole thing knowing the shop went through and serviced the whole unit before taking it on the water.


Sooo...off to the owner we go. The Boat shop mechanic said the boat had been very well taken care of and when the boat market picks back up this would sell for 3500-4000 pretty easily. Like I said earlier we felt that $2500 would be a good deal right now IF the boat was in mechanically sound condition.

I took him the invoice and told him what the mechanic found. He obviously wasn't too happy....but he was in no position to fork out the money to fix it and needed it gone.
We offered him $1,800..He reluctantly said $2,000 and we settled on $1,900. The boat Mechanic said anything $2,000 and under is a great deal on the boat. So we felt good about it.

Dropped it off at the shop and should be done in a week or so. Just another lesson and reason to have the boat checked out by a mechanic before buying...That $40 bucks we gave him to take the boat saved my buddy hundreds of dollars in repairs to get it back up and running.:D

Happy Boating!
 

MTribe08

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
680
Re: What are we missing?

Also, on your list of bads you mention holes for a trolling motor that need to be filled, I would just get some good sealer and nice stainless screws and put a little sealer in each hole and then fill it with the stainless screws.

So instead of trying to color match the gel coat after filling the holes, you would just see some stainless hardware. Nice idea!!

Also, is the crack you mention, in the windshield glass or on the fiberglass near the windshield. Windshields on a boat are very expensive unless you can find one used.

No its not in the winshield....its on the fiberglass just under it.
 

MTribe08

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
680
Re: What are we missing?

The laboring to start could be a carb out of adjustment or maybe hungry for gas, which may or may not be related to the gas leak.

It was determined that the + side of the battery needed to be tightened down..I noted it was getting hot when trying to start it..after we tightened it, the starter picked right up and the heating was gone.
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
51,019
Re: What are we missing?

when was the exhaust manifold and risers changed. if they have not been done, they are way overdue. the 4.3 has lapped valves, bad exhaust will allow water to be sucked into the motor when the valves lap.
 

MTribe08

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
680
Re: What are we missing?

when was the exhaust manifold and risers changed. if they have not been done, they are way overdue. the 4.3 has lapped valves, bad exhaust will allow water to be sucked into the motor when the valves lap.

Not sure TD, how does one tell when its time to do this? What exactly is Valve Lapping?
 

fat fanny

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
1,935
Re: What are we missing?

That is a nice rig and you and your buddy sure seemed to have done your homework so much so that I think this would be a good stickie for individuals to use when going to purchase a new boat goods and bads do's and don'ts along w/ a good trailer inspection very well done and informative!
 

ezmobee

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
23,767
Re: What are we missing?

Absolutely excellent work on your inspection and your bargaining. You ended up with a great boat for an excellent price. Everyone shopping for a boat should follow your lead. Good luck to your friend with his new purchase. He owes you multiple cases of beer.
 

Bart Sr.

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jul 26, 2002
Messages
1,603
Re: What are we missing?

a log was the culprit, the prop spun it up into a fin that was mounted and broke the piece off.


Might be a good time to check the runout on the prop shaft.
 

SuperNova

Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
1,455
Re: What are we missing?

Check out the tralier VERY carefully before you get to towing very far. It is a painted trailer and there's another thread here where the tongue fell off a trailer newer than that one from rust.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=367302

Even if the trailer is a little rough, $2600 is still a very good deal in my book. ($1900 purchase + $700 repairs)
 

superpop

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
869
Re: What are we missing?

I would just do the manifolds and risers since they are way past due, the previous owner can tell you if it has ever been done but if he is unsure or has not done it, swapping them out is a good idea. You are looking at around 350 in parts and it is a pretty easy job. As far as the trailer goes, the one that Supernova references was a closed tube trailer, yours appears to be a c channel type construction, which is what you want on a painted trailer. He is right though that you should do a very thorough inspection of the trailer and probably repack the bearings and install new seals. I would also check all lights for functionality.
 

MTribe08

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
680
Re: What are we missing?

That is a nice rig and you and your buddy sure seemed to have done your homework so much so that I think this would be a good stickie for individuals to use when going to purchase a new boat goods and bads do's and don'ts along w/ a good trailer inspection very well done and informative!

Thank you, we were very excited about how it all transpired, and he feels really good about the purchase because of what we now know about the boat.
However,I will be the first to admit, that without the help from the great forum members here and the many hours I've spent reading through threads, I wouldn't have done near as good a job for my friend, nor would I have near the boating knowledge I now do.

It was funny when we were down at the boat shop and the mechanic was talking to us..I was using "boat terms" I had learned about here and I had a pretty good idea about what we were doing. I didn't get the feeling he got that very often from his customers.:D He spent about an hr with us going over the boat, and didn't charge us anything. Of course he was hoping we'd buy the boat and bring the business back to him, but it was very generous on his part.
 
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