Water Softner

dhud64

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
344
Does anybody own one? Do you like it? What type do you have? Would you buy another one?
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: Water Softner

Don't own one.Wouldn't want one.Don't like being dependent on softener system detergent products.If you use the regular soaps like Dial soap it takes forever to get rinsed off because the water is so soft.Same with laundry detergents.Not to mention the residue buildup in your drains.However if you don't mind ponying up for the softener sysytem products ,you might be ok.Just my 2 cents.I took a few showers at a Ramada Inn and used my own soap and danced around for 15 minutes trying to cut the suds.
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Water Softner

Sheeeeeeesh! Thought I taught all you guys everything there is to know about soft water. :D It's back to class for a refresher course.<br /><br />Water softening is often mis-understood. It is nothing more that a process that removed dissolved ions of certain minerals down to near zero level. It is not a process that adds something to the water to create a desired result.<br /><br />Those certain minerals are nothing more that the dissolved ions of ROCK, also know as limestone(hardness. Softening also has the ability to remove the dissolved ions of iron and manganeese which once contacted with air leave yellow, brown, red or blackish brown stains.<br /><br />Water, as we might have occasion to use direct from the sky or snowmelt from resivoirs is naturally soft. It has not been in the ground where it will invariably dissolve the material that makes up the aquifer.<br /><br />Soft water is prefered water because it is closer to, well, just plain water. When soap products are combined with hard water, the soap actually causes the dissolved minerals to be pulled out of solution (returning to their solid state) and combine with the soap to form a sticky drying insoluable curd of soap and limestone. This curd stick on your skin, hair, fabric and does not rinse away.<br /><br />A high alkaline mixture of soap and limestone breaks down fabrics more rapidly, is very drying on the skin and will cause an increased bacteria level on your skin causing varying degrees of itching.<br /><br />Further more hard water causes you to HAVE to use chemical soaps and to use more of them. All soap that ties up with minerals pulled out of solution become useless for cleaning. Therefore you have to add additional levels of soap to do the job.<br /><br />"Softwater soaps" are nothing more than natural soaps. You do not have to buy the dealers Soap Packs to get natural soaps. They are not effective in hard water but they are more pleasant and way easier on the skin. Many natural soap products are available in the supermarkets. Amway's soaps are also natural.<br /><br />. Soft water ie water absent of dissolved limestone, is wetter water, it has lower surface tension and it is a better solvent. Therefore it rinses soap off the body and out of the fabrics more quickly and thoroughly than hard water plus there is no hardness to form that curd.<br /><br />As to the slipperyness of softwater, it is nothing more than the absence of the opposite effect of being slathered with the sticky curd. High alkaline soap interacts with the surface skin protien causing that smooth slippery feeling in the absence of that sticky curd. The soap is long gone with minimal rinsing. The end result is that your skin is left smoother and moister.<br /><br />Go for the soft water. Which ever soap you use be sure to reduce the common dose by as much as 3/4's. That even includes your dishwasher.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Water Softner

Thanks, Boomer.<br /><br />Yes, I had one when I had well water that turned everything dark red and wouldn't make suds at 50-50 with Tide.<br /><br />It was a Culligan. It worked exactly as advertised.<br /><br />Yes. If I again had water that a softener would help I would buy another one in a minute.
 

lakelivin

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Aug 19, 2004
Messages
1,172
Re: Water Softner

Booms' the expert, only things I'd add:<br /><br />1) might be worth getting your water tested to see how hard it is and what from. Boom, are there 'limits' on different element amounts you would use to determine rough cost (softener, salt, time & effort)/ benefits estimate w.r.t. buying a system?<br /><br />2) I moved from city water (I'd guess not exceptionally hard, but not soft, either) to the country and a well system (hard water). After putting in a softener, I noticed that clothes colors were much brighter after washing than I had seen in years (even when living in the city). The difference was very noticeable; some things looked like new again. <br /><br />Question for Boom: non-chlorine bleaches seem to 'soften' the washwater. Is that part of their function and benefit? <br /><br />3) I've heard that hard water can tear up your fixtures pretty quickly, depending on how hard & whats in it. The plumbing supply store said gold colored fixtures were especially prone to damage from hard water as compared to chrome (this was 10 years ago, so things might have changed). Might be a consideration if you've got expensive or susceptable fixtures. <br /><br />4) I'd also guess that hard water is gonna cause your water heater to be less efficient (both from sediment that builds up in the tank and makes heating less efficient and from quicker failure of heating elements if you have an electric heater).
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Water Softner

Lakelivin, your water should always be tested, if for no other reason than to properly calibrate the softener. And yes, even in the absense of iron, soft water wash will make cloths brighter because the 'curd' that would otherwise stay behind make all cloths dingier.<br /><br />In moderately hard water(and worse), reasonably priced, (not highpowered telemarketers) water softeners have a cash payback of about seven years in soap costs and wear and tear on fabric and fixtures. This does not take into account any negative effects of iron. That would make the payout even quicker. <br /><br />To my knowledge, non bleach whiteners have no chemical softening characteristics. The only 'chemical water softener' were phosphates. Up until recently most laundry detergents had phosphates in them. You used to even be able to buy powdered phospates in the laundry soap section. They are all gone now. Phosphates discharged into the waterways fostered algae growth. Algae robbed the water of oxygen and killed the wildlife. The effects of phosphates were an attemp to 'tie up' and keep 'hardness' in solution instead of falling out into that curd. It was somewhat successfull but still no substitute for removing the calcium from the water. The only cleaning product that still has phosphates are dishwashing detergents. If you soften your water, you should cut way down on the amount you use or find a non phosphate substitute. Phosphates without hardness will actually etch glass in the dishwasher.<br /><br />Electric hot water heaters are particularly prone to increased inefficiency due to hard water. Calcium plates out on the heating elements causing them to burn hotter and run longer to transmit the heat to the water. The net result is higher electric use and shorter heating rod life. How much depends on how hard your water is. Low to moderately hard is minimal but still demonstratable.
 

eurolarva

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
4,182
Re: Water Softner

Dishes looked like crap in the dishwasher. I even tried the vinegar in a tray trick with no success. I bought a morton system saver for around 350 dollars. Spent the weekend installing it and what a difference. No brown stains anymore on the toilets and bath tubs and the dishes sparkle. I have only added one bag of salt to it since Thanksgiving. It has a metering system that only regenerates when needed instead of on a regular schedule. The other thing I like about it was the footprint on it was the only one I could find that would fit into the utility closet without blocking anything.<br /><br />Go to a hardware or building store and buy a water test kit. They have like 5 different tests you can do and water hardness was off the chart for me. After a week I retested it and it was down to practically zero.
 

boling

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Messages
98
Re: Water Softner

A softener is a good thing. I've had a Sears HI-cap unit for over 4 years now, no problems. That slick feeling is not the soap, but your skin without disolved minerals on it. Hand wash a plastic cup in soft water, you'll feel a huge difference. Get ready to throw out those speciality cleaners, you don't need them.<br /><br />Would I buy another one? Well, if this one even hints a failure, another one will be placed in service right beside it. It's the best $700.00 I've ever spent on the house. All I've ever added is salt. and reset the clock when the power goes out.<br /><br />Mine is demand regenerating, based on the hardness of the water, (mine is about 15)and the volume used, it will regenerate automaticaly.<br /><br />I also had clearwater iron so bad that a 5 gal bucket would look like iced tea after clorine was added. Problem GONE.<br /><br />Get it,you won't be sorry<br /><br />Chris
 

dhud64

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
344
Re: Water Softner

WoW! Thanks for all the replies. I'll be doing some homework...
 
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