Water in the Oil

[RubberFrog]

Re: Water in the Oil

We ran the engine last night for about twenty minutes with newspaper under the motor.

There were no oil leaks and no water entered the oil. The oil level never raised and the oil stayed a nice pretty honey color.

Oil pressure was about 50 pounds and the temp stayed right around 160.

I'm thinking that this may have been a one time water ingestion due to the unusual operating conditions shortly before the problem manifested itself. I'll let Scott describe that since I wasn't there.

 

[Scott Butler]

Re: Water in the Oil

RubberFrog and I did some more tests last night and here is what we found.

Did another visual inspection of the engine and found no place where oil seemed to be leaking. We did find a couple of spots of oil on the starter bolt heads but nothing that looked like a massive oil leak.

We ran the engine for about 10 minutes at temperature on the muffs. It started on the first try and ran smoothly the whole time. The audible warning system was coming on and off during that time (not the high pitched scream but just seemed to be on the edge of triggering it and it was a very low volume). We then let it cool, checked the oil which did not have any water in it, checked the newspaper we had put underneath the engine which did not have any water or oil drips on it. I pulled off the oil filler cap and found some condensation inside of it.

We then pulled off the spark arrester and looked at the pvc valve and the vent tube to the other valve cover. The PVC valve had plenty of the white goo on it. I cleaned it off and then blew threw to make sure it was clear. The vent tube also had the goo in it but was not completely clogged.

RubberFrog thought the audible warning system was caused by a lack of water pressure from the hose so we did another run test with the hose turned all the way on. Again, the engine started on the first try and ran perfectly the whole time. This time, there was no audible warning. The oil level did not change during the test, no water in the oil, and no leaks detected on the newspaper.

After discussing the situation with RubberFrog, he throught I should mention that just before this happened last Saturday, we had a stuck anchor. I had a friend manning the helm of the boat while I was trying to get in unstuck. The friend at one point inadvertenly gunned the starboard engine (the port engine is the one with water in it) causing the boat to turn to port. RubberFrog thinks that could have caused excessive back pressure in port engine and explain the water in the oil.

Our next step is to start breaking the engine down. From above, it seems like a good idea to look at both the intake and exhaust manifolds and their gaskets. I will try to post some pictures of what we find.

Thanks again for the help and suggestions. Any ideas are greatly appreciated.

 

[KaGee]

Re: Water in the Oil

Hold the phone!

If the water intrusion was a "one time" situation, the gooey froth is going to stick around until all the condensation is burned out. I found that a can of BERRYMAN'S added to the crankcase, run up to temperture and then for about 10-15 minutes, does a good job getting rid of most the froth. Then change the oil and filter. It takes a good 15-20 minute run on the water to heat the block up enough to remove all condensation. If after that, you still have condensation, then you know there is an internal problem.

Before you tear down the engine you should conduct a block pressure test. DonS made up a diagram a while back, I thought I saved it, but no go. It involves making up a rig to inject air into the cooling system up to about 15lbs pressure and then watching the guage and listening. You have to block off the hoses exiting the thermo housing that go to the exhaust manifolds and inject the air through a temporary hose placed at the water inlet on the thermo housing. Sounds complicated, but it really is not.

Here is what I made up for block testing...

I just modified the rig I used for pressure testing my outdrive.

 

[imported_Pioneer]

Re: Water in the Oil

Thats a great idea - thanks.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Water in the Oil

Did you tear into the exhaust yet?

 

[Scott Butler]

Re: Water in the Oil

Last weekend, I decided to replace the intake manifold gasket and all of the exhaust gaskets (mainfold, manifold to riser, riser to riser elbow). There was some indication around the intake manifold gasket that water could be leaking and some rust around one of the exhaust ports on the head. Also, Pioneer looked at the exhaust manifolds and suggested there could be trouble as there were some rust stains in a couple of the ports. However, I decided to just replace all of the gaskets as a first step.

Last night I took the boat out to test. I ran it for about 10 minutes at 2000 RPM or less. I then put it on plane for about 5 minutes and then idle for 5 minutes. I stopped the motor and did a visual inspection and checked the oil. So far, so good.

I redid the same test again keeping it on plane for about 5 minutes longer. This time when I opened the engine hatch, I saw milky oil all over the top of the intake manifold but could not figure out where it was coming from. So, I did a 3rd test.

This time, I kept the hatch open during the test. After the boat got on plane and was at about 3500 RPM for a few minutes, a milky white steam started spewing out of the valve cover right around cylinder 1.

So, it looks like the issue only happens when the engine is under load (I did run it on the muffs for about 45 minutes before I went out and no problems). Also, the issue is creating lots of oil and water in the bilge which explains the original puzzle of water in the oil and lots of oil and water in the bilge.

It seems to me that it is probably either a blown head gasket, a bad head (cracked some where) or a crack in the block.

Any thoughts on next steps?

 

[KaGee]

Re: Water in the Oil

As I said before.... BLOCK PRESSURE TEST.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Water in the Oil

Before you tear down the engine you should conduct a block pressure test. DonS made up a diagram a while back, I thought I saved it, but no go. It involves making up a rig to inject air into the cooling system up to about 15lbs pressure and then watching the guage and listening. You have to block off the hoses exiting the thermo housing that go to the exhaust manifolds and inject the air through a temporary hose placed at the water inlet on the thermo housing. Sounds complicated, but it really is not.

Here is what I made up for block testing...

I just modified the rig I used for pressure testing my outdrive.

Where do you hook this up? At the water hose coming from the outdrive? Do we just disconnect the hose from the outdrive and then pump it up with the thermo blocked off? Should we remove the thermostat first?
Thanks for your help Kagee.

 

[KaGee]

Re: Water in the Oil

Disconnect the hose coming from the outdrive at the thermostat housing.

Block off the hoses going to the manifolds. (I used a rubber plug that looks like a bottle cork and a hose clamp.)

Adapt the air pump with a tee fitting and an inexpensive fuel pressure guage to the connection on the thermo housing where the hose from the drive attaches. (don't mind that valve on my picture... it was used in a pinch, Home Depot was out of the proper adapter that day)

Shouldn't need to remove the thermostat.

Pressure it up to 15-20lbs. Look and listen for air loss. A head gasket, cracked head or block will normally reveal itself. You can take a small funnel and fit it up with a little hose to aid in listening for air leakes. Stick it down the carb throat (throttle open), In side the valve covers, or even pull the spark plugs and listen in each cylinder.

 

[widowsson]

Re: Water in the Oil

If the water is getting into the pan, then the oil level will rise (oil being lighter than water), eventually pushing your oil out through the dipstick hole.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Water in the Oil

If the water is getting into the pan, then the oil level will rise (oil being lighter than water), eventually pushing your oil out through the dipstick hole.

That wasn't happening because the oil was spraying out through the pcv valve and crankcase breather.
I'll let you know next week what the outcome is.