Volvo Duo prop Vibes

[billbayliner]

Have a 1995 Volvo 350 GL with a volvo Duo prop outdrive. It is pushing a 25 foot cruiser.

At the moment it has B3 props on it with no apparent damage. I had a set of B4's but it was overproped and would not reach WOT but still had same issue of vibration in certain RPM range.

I am getting vibration that starts at 1700 RPM, and it continues till 2200 RPM. It then goes away.

I can hit the throttle to get on plane and not get any vibration at all and cruises smooth at 3300 - 3500 RPM.

Today I wanted to just puttz around but had to keep the boat out of this range.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Bill

 

[Don S]

Re: Volvo Duo prop Vibes

When was the last time you pulled the upper gear box and checked the ujoints, and for water in the bellows? Those bellows aren't know for lasting more than a few years. They are really thin.

 

[billbayliner]

Re: Volvo Duo prop Vibes

Just bought the boat about 3 weeks ago and when inspecting notice the drive bellow was recently changed. He informed me that it is around a year old. He relayed to me the reason for changing was because a friends drive bellow had cracked and he had to replace the gimble, u-joints, etc, so he did it as preventative.

He informed me there was no water in but I cannot comment on whether U-joints were checked for play. This, along with alignment I was planning on doing during winterization process.

Just a note on the U-joints if it may help in diagnosis. When I am slowly pulling up into the shallow swim hole with the drive trimmed WAY up, there is no noise or vibration at all is very smooth.

Bill

 

[Don S]

Re: Volvo Duo prop Vibes

You said "HE" "Informed you or relayed to you" three times.
In other words, all you have is the word of the guy trying to desperatly sell this boat, as being the absolute truth and that he and his friend with a worn out bellows are both the best Volvo techs on earth.

Why is it, I have a feeling you need to pull the upper gear box and check the ujoints........... and probably replace them. Also check the shaft going into the engine for any up and down motion, or milky grease behind that seal.

 

[billbayliner]

Re: Volvo Duo prop Vibes

Thanks Don, greatly appreciate all your help!

Would anyone happen to have a exploded view of my outdrive handy?

Also, from what I have read my engine alignment tool that I use on my 3.0 Alpha 1 gen 2 will work on a volvo sx drive but will it work on my 290 DP?

Bill

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Volvo Duo prop Vibes

Besides the things that Don told you, props that have been improperly repaired can also cause ths vibration. It might be worth having the props looked at and balanced by a "good" prop shop. This may mean shipping them. Wilmington propellor in southern California is an excellent prop shop.

 

[billbayliner]

Re: Volvo Duo prop Vibes

in regards to my request on exploded view of my drive, here is a link to some exploded views of drives including OMC and Volvo. Hope it helps some people out.
http://www.nauticamarine.us/nauticamarine_008.htm

Seeing I have a spare set of props, I am also going to take the B3's and have them checked for balance. I doubt this is a problem seeing the B4's also vibrate at certain RPM but it does not hurt to check the condition of them.

Is there U joint kits available including all seals, etc, that I may need? Also after calling the local store, they do not have the Sierra equivelent u-joint (18-2104) in stock. Is this an item that may be found in a autoparts store by remote chance.

Thanks in advance

 

[billbayliner]

Re: Volvo Duo prop Vibes

Ok after doing a search I found Don reply about the Spicer U-joints he uses. I then went to Napa and crossed it and came up with these different u-joints for those who may need a U-joint also and have the convenience of going to a auto parts store.

Spicer 51306x

Rockwell (I think this is the brand Part Source said they were)
K1306 standard, lifetime warranty
K1306-1 with zirk fitting
k1306-HD heavy duty - lifetime warranty

Napa numbers
PUJ 315G
NUJ 2101306

Ok now that I have that problem solved, can anyone tell me the seals and gaskets I will need to reinstall the drive properly. Is there a sierra kit for this? I have searched and have found dozens of seal kits but if I am in there I want to change everything needed for preventitive maintainance. I am not familiar at all with these drives

Also does my merc engine alignment tool work in this volvo drive. Searching says it will work in an sx drive. Mine is a 290 dp

All help greatly appreciated

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Volvo Duo prop Vibes

Seeing I have a spare set of props, I am also going to take the B3's and have them checked for balance. I doubt this is a problem seeing the B4's also vibrate at certain RPM but it does not hurt to check the condition of them.

I missed that in your first post. I would agree that two sets of props with the same vibrarion problem points away from the props.

 

[Redneck Yacht Club]

Re: Volvo Duo prop Vibes

Was prop shaft run out checked?
Engine coulpers sometimes can make virbrations too.
Engine mounts tight?

 

[billbayliner]

Re: Volvo Duo prop Vibes

Hi Red: Thanks for the input. Will check the engine mounts in the morning for tightness.

The word coupler is not one of my favorites as I know the engine has to be lifted.....

I have no clue about shaft run out....

Thanks again

Bill

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Volvo Duo prop Vibes

Just as a side note, B series props are for the older DP-290 series drives but if you have a newers DP-S drive, they should be F series props.

Are your props stainless or aluminum and which drive do you have?

 

[Maclin]

Re: Volvo Duo prop Vibes

(Bill said here that he has a 290 DP...:"Also does my merc engine alignment tool work in this volvo drive. Searching says it will work in an sx drive. Mine is a 290 dp".)

The B series props are aluminum, C series are the stainless for those drives.

To work on the u-joints you do not need to remove the entire drive. The upper gear unit can be removed while the drive is attached, the drive shaft comes out with the upper gear unit. You will need a drive bellows kit, I am out of town now or I could give you the Sierra#, I got one for about $50. NAPA numbers for the ujoints I bought are NUJ2101306, same as the ones your research found, $11.99ea. I was able to get the drive shaft apart without having to remove the front of the upper gear unit unit housing where the bellows attaches, that is where the bearing carrier is and the driveshaft bolts thru it from the inside. The seal was ok there so I did not service that.

While the upper unit is off I would also check the water intake hose and the fitting that is on the intermediate unit. That hose fitting will corrode like crazy and will let the raw water pump suck air while on plane. The hose is mounted thru the transom from the inside, kind of tricky but you will feel better once a new hose and fitting are on there.

The upper unit seals to the intermediate unit with a tacky gasket maker, no gasket needed.

I figured all of this out from a Seloc manual for those drives, and from reading every post I could google up about it.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Volvo Duo prop Vibes

Another thing about Duo-Prop drives is that there is some thought around that they need to be "clocked" so two blades do not cross under the cavitation plate at the same time. Some boats can experience a void if both props have a blade crossing there simultaneously.

I also found some threads that indicated that clocking them reduces their tendency to boil the water around their edges which roughs them up. Clocking them semed to reduce or eliminate this phenemon.

Some have experienced speed increases, some have not.

Some say it makes a difference, some say it does not. No one says it hurts anything. It is easy to do, so if you have a vibration you can try it for "free". Remove the rear prop, turn the front prop so the leading edge of a blade lines up with the top of the plate. Then put the rear prop back on and line up the splines so one of those blade's leading edge is straight down pointing away from the plate. Looking at it from the rear there will be no "gaps".

I put on new props and clocked them after the ujoint service. Ultra-smooth, no vibrations at any time, turning, straight, any speed or rpm. This prop set has always been clocked and been behind new ujoints so I have nothing to compare it to. I know my old props had a vibration at times but they were in horrible condition, lots of material missing so no chance for a one-to-one comparo. and I am leaving mine the way it is! no need to tempt fate.....

 

[billbayliner]

Re: Volvo Duo prop Vibes

Thanks for the great info Mac. I removed the B3's today and SON OF A GUN, you should see the one blade. It is Tuliped right from where it was last repaired. Unless I was absolutely intoxicated I would have never put that prop on in that condition. I do not remember hitting anything. I put the B4's on.

Brought it to my buddy's prop repair place and he tells me he would have scrapped the thing instead of repairing it the last time because half the blade was gone. He is going to bang it out and balance it but he is worried the thing will break at the weld.

While there, I got to talking to a Volvo mechanic. Very Nice kid. He tells me that when he was in a class at Volvo they showed him how to "time" the props and showed me how so I could give it a try when they are fixed.

He also thought it was strange that I had a 290DP in a 1995 boat and thought it would have been a SX as the 290DP older.

I also asked him about using my alpha alignment bar on the 290 and he said no. Asked him about a seal kit for when I pull the upper drive but he informs me everything (O-rings) is sold seperate. This is Volvo parts and not Sierra so if you had a chance and forward the Sierra kit # I would really appreciate it.

I am going to pop the repaired prop on and see what happens and if still vibrating then going to do the universals.

Will keep you updated

Bill

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Volvo Duo prop Vibes

He also thought it was strange that I had a 290DP in a 1995 boat and thought it would have been a SX as the 290DP older.

2005 was the first year that Volvo went to the SX style drive so it is not really strange that you got the 290. Many would argue that you have the better drive, especially considering 2005 was the first year of the SX (or DP-S).

 

[billbayliner]

Re: Volvo Duo prop Vibes

I must have misunderstood him then in regards to the SX.

Saying that "Many would argue that you have the better drive" does make me happy that people have such a high opinion of this drive.

Hopefully many years of trouble free use in the future, lol?

Bill

 

[Maclin]

Re: Volvo Duo prop Vibes

The Volvo 290DP is a very tough and long lasting drive. Mine is a 1991 and the work I just did (I have had it a year) may have been the first service of that type it ever had.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Volvo Duo prop Vibes

As far as putting the drive back together, there is only one o ring for the oil fill pipe if my memory is not failing. I got mine at the plumbing section at a True Value hardware store. I also put new orings on the dipstick and the bottom drain plug.

The drive bellows comes with two clamps in the kit. These are available from Sierra. I just recently moved and have my books and things still in a box somewhere, sorry! You can do a search on AQ270 bellows and probably find them. AQ270 is the 350 4bbl engine code. I have also seen it as AQ271. I got mine on eBay. I got the bellows kit and the water intake hose and fitting from the same seller.

 

[Don S]

Re: Volvo Duo prop Vibes

2005 was the first year that Volvo went to the SX style drive so it is not really strange that you got the 290. Many would argue that you have the better drive, especially considering 2005 was the first year of the SX (or DP-S).

The SX was started in 94, the DP-S started a couple years later, and the 290 (STYLE) drive was still used in some models up to 98 (The WT models). There the DP-S became the only DP sold for GAS engines. The DP-E (290 style) was used on the diesel engines. Mainly because they could take all the torque of the diesel and still survive.

PROPS
B = 280-290 Style drive, aluminum
C = 280-290 style drive, Stainless steel
D = DP-S Aluminum
F = DP-S Stainless Steel