Voltmeter creeping up and back

[Chilly5001]

Hi all, I have a 1996 75 hp force by merc that I recently replaced the starter and starter solenoid on. After cleaning all the connections and charging my battery it cranked (easier than it has in a while). I took the boat out and quickly noticed the radio wouldn't come on. No big deal, probably a loose wire or something I figured I'd investigate later.....I then noticed the nav/anchor lights would only come on intermittently and they seemed to go off immediately if I tried the radio again. The horn would only occasionally work as well.

The pontoon stays outside all year in the water and hasnt been driven since late august so I wasnt too worried if the radio didn't work. On my way back to the dock I noticed the volt meter creeping up to 18 and slowly returning to about 14 where it normally is when underway at a reasonable rpm.

Any ideas? My battery is 4yrs old. I charged it 3 weeks ago to 100% and when I went to recharge it yesterday it was @ 44%. All my connections (that I altered) are clean and tight. I'm a novice and don't mind call a mechanic buy y'all have been very helpful in the past and have allowed my to learn a lot and save significant $. Thanks!

 

[sam am I]

2 issues **sounds.......

1) Voltage regulator is going out, creep up and dropping back is a common mode failure I've seen. (get a volt meter, attach it directly on the battery posts, start motor to confirm/double check)

2) You have a corroded/flaky main feed fuse and/or wire and/or connection that feeds voltage to the helm switches sounds.

**Both could possibly relate to one bad main ground somewhere. The voltage meter test #1 should help determine this

 

[Chilly5001]

Many thanks...when you say attach volt meter to battery do you mean a multimeter thing?

Also while cleaning the battery side connections it seemed that a smaller black hook up was a little "wobbly".

What is the worst case scenario if the voltage regulator dies? Battery gets fried? It looked relatively easy to replace if that is the culprit. But if not could a poorly connected ground (the wobbly black wire) cause the increase in volts? Makes sense that that could be the cause for the nav lights, etc to die.

Thanks again!!

 

[sam am I]

when you say attach volt meter to battery do you mean a multimeter thing?

Yes, one of those thingy's.

Also while cleaning the battery side connections it seemed that a smaller black hook up was a little "wobbly".

Definitely fix/tighten that up..that could be a main ground running to your helm.

What is the worst case scenario if the voltage regulator dies? Battery gets fried?

Well, if the voltage is up at 18V and raising........Yes and/or certain less well regulated electronics. Fire and a Hospital trip isn't totally out of the "worse case" however.

But if not could a poorly connected ground (the wobbly black wire) cause the increase in volts?

It sure is possible.

Makes sense that that could be the cause for the nav lights, etc to die.

Agreed, especially if the black wire in question is the return for those devices.

 

[Chilly5001]

Thanks again. I will investigate, tighten/fix the best I can and fumble my way through with a multimeter thingy. To say I'm a novice is an understatement but felt confident after changing starter and solenoid.

I'll report back with what I find. Thanks!!

 

[60sboater]

Set the multimeter to "DC Volts" for the test he mentioned.

 

[roscoe]

Ground wire is a good possibility for the radio and lights.

Battery may also be dying if it won't hold a charge.

And voltage rectifier/regulator may be failing as well, as it should be keeping your battery charged.

So I think you have at least 2 separate problems.

Regarding your charging the battery, then it is depleted to 44% in 3 weeks.
Did you run the motor during those 3 weeks?

 

[Chilly5001]

No, didn't run the boat over that time period. The boat is at a little cabin I own about 1.5 hrs from my home so repairs are not always the easiest...logistically and from my lack of knowledge ha ha.

Thanks for the tip on the multimeter. Getting one this week at lowes.

The regulator *seems* easy to replace- two bolts and a few electrical connections. I don't mind buying one and having it just in case that is what I need. I can always hold on to it or return it...again I hate to lose time on the water because of logistics. Could y'all help point me in the right direct to get the right part#? What info do I need? Thanks again.

Chilly.

 

[roscoe]

The electrical on that motor is not completely regulated.
It will put out 15, 16 , 17 volts at times.
The battery places a part in the regulating. A bad cell in the battery could have an effect on the regulating.

So, the battery pretty much went dead from just sitting for 3 weeks. That does not speak well for the battery.

I would fix up that ground wire.
Then borrow or buy another battery and try it out.

Would not invest in a rectifier/regulator until you swap out the battery and run the motor to check the voltage on the battery terminals.

A regulator is non returnable, as it is an electrical component, and most places will not take them back.

Mercury part:

22

883071A1

VOLTAGE REGULATOR

$230


After market, Mercury Marine, Yamaha Outboard, Mariner, Force 194-5279 Voltage Regulators - CDI Electronics
Price: $180.28

http://www.iboats.com/mall/partfind...gd_poid=334793&gd_row=13&session_id=164259873

These things have gotten crazy expensive for some reason.
Just 10 years ago, I bought the Mercury part, for $50.

 

[sam am I]

Good valid replacement/info given by roscoe ^^^

or........

As I hate over priced re-brands/smoke and mirrors..............I use these, just tie the two red wires (sense and Vout) together right at the reg.

5 wire units (yours i think) simply just tie the two red wires of a 6 wire reg together internal to the reg and call it 5 wire type, It's the same part.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...XZX5NKW9X1K2QK

 

[Chilly5001]

Many thanks roscoe and Sam....think I'm going to pick up a new battery and multimeter for my next trip. Maybe Amazon can get me that regulatory quick as well. ~$200 is to much to take a leap on but I'm in for a try at $40 ha ha.

Quick question...when you say tie the two reds together can you explain in a little more detail? I'm handy but know very little. Thanks to all!!

 

[sam am I]

when you say tie the two reds together can you explain in a little more detail?

Sure but, you asked: The red wire with the male bullet is the +12VDC output, the red wire with the female bullet is the sense input.

The sense wire is used to adjust for voltage drops that can occur in the male bullet +12VDC wire when larger amounts of current and/or longer runs of the male bullet +12VDC output wire are used/needed to get to the battery.

For example.........If 10 feet of 12 awg is used to go from the regulator to the battery and the battery draws 20 amps, the wire will drop approximately 0.5V.

If the voltage regulator's output voltage **load regulation is spec'd/designed to remain at 14VDC +/- 0.1VDC @ 20amps, then the battery will see only 13.5VDC'ish due to the 0.5VDC drop the 10' wire during this 20 amp load.

These regulators however have the built in ability to "remote sense" and feedback the drop of 0.5VDC back into the regulator via the female bullet red wire sense wire.

But, the sense wire has to, of course, be ran that 10' as the crow flies to the battery along side the output red wire the in order to "sense" the drop (0.5VDC this case) in voltage........This is called "remote sensing" and if this is done with the above example, the regulator would now adjust its output automagically up to 14.5VDC so the voltage on the battery is now 14VDC..........Magic!!

However if in the above example you don't want to run the sense wire that 10', you can tie it right to the regulator's output wire at the regulator...this is called "local sensing" and is what I suggested you to do with the amazon "6 wire reg" and is what is hardwired by the manu's but internally with the "5 wire reg's" (yours I think as per roscoe's numbers) of this type.

Local sensing is typically used when you have short runs of properly rated wire where the drop in voltage can be otherwise neglected.

**(rated voltage regulation at current sourcing components/IC internal to the regulator)

 

[Chilly5001]

Sam....believe it or not that makes pretty good sense to me. My question is how do I tie them together? Is it as simple as plugging the male output into the female input (could it be that simple?) or do I splice the sensor wire into the output?

Conceptually I get it (thank you) but practically I'm hesitant to start connecting, splicing (?) etc unless I kinda know what I'm doing.

Thanks for the info and your patience.

 

[sam am I]

Np.......that's why they pay me the big bucks!!

I hard wired mine via a resettable 30 amp inline breaker cuz I don't like bullets, they can get flaky.........

1) On regulator, cut off both red bullets, strip back wires, twist ends together and crimp on ring lug.

2) On the mating wire (the battery side) cut off old bullet connector and strip back wire and crimp on ring lug.

3) Insert 30 amp resettable breaker between ring lugs.

or using bullets.......

1) On regulator, cut off both bullets on the red wires, strip wires back, twist them together and re-crimp on a new female bullet that mates to your existing male bullet connector.

2) Plug both male and female bullets together.

 

[Chilly5001]

Got it! Thanks to everyone for you help. I'll report back after I can get back to the lake.

Y'all are awesome.

Chilly.