Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

[CaptOchs]

I thought I'd share this with fellow boaters whether you're from NY or not:
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20120417/NEWS01/304170065/irondequoit-boating-regulation-culver-road?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Home

The town of Irondequoit is proposing a regulation that "boats cannot be anchored, moored, adrift or joined together with any other vessel within 450 feet of the area of the Lake Ontario shoreline running west from the Irondequoit Bay Outlet Pier to the east property boundary of 186 Lake Bluff Road." They claim there have been a number of boaters tie off too close to shore of the property owners. Some complain about noise, garbage, and boaters dragging their grills onto their beaches.

This seems a little ridiculous and not like the behavior of most boaters. The town has the right to create a zone, but if its a safety issue and in the best interest of town. I guess they see a bunch of anchored boats with their engines turned OFF a hazard.

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

I'm sure it will happen but to me the big question is "Who owns the water in that piece of
Lake Ontario?" Town, county, state or Feds. I would assume (I know) the owner makes the rules not an adjoining jurisdiction.

 

[CaptOchs]

Re: Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

It looks like the State. From what I've read the towns jurisdiction ends at the shore. Any vessel exclusion zones must be amended to the navigational law for good reasons.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

Here's a pile of doo doo:

Water vessels owned and operated by those living on this stretch would be excluded from this limitation.

Its exclusions like that, that will get it tossed out of court before the ink is dry.

Well, I guess its time to organize a boat parade. 24/7

 

[Mikeyboy]

Re: Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

It must be nice not only do you get the private beach front but now you get your own territorial waters too. Man I wish I was rich lol.

 

[joed]

Re: Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

There must be a problem in that area. I know if people started anchoring, partying and throwing garbage in the water in front of my cottage I would not be happy. I own the beach so if they came on the beach to barbeque I would ask them to leave.

 

[CaptOchs]

Re: Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

I think the fact these zones are for "safety purposes" defeats it before it goes to the state. It's not a safety concern. The zone is not an in an navigational channel. The channel bends away from the beach. They are just trying to protect a sandy beach for a dozen and a half homeowners. This zone is popular among boaters because it's shallow and sandy even out as far as the bend in the channel. There are complaints of the boats in this area tying up for hours, making noise, and using their beach. One property owner reported someone defecated next to their grill.

The town is trying to use its power to create a zone based of NYS Law intended for public beaches, parks, and safety concerns. None of which qualifies for this zone. The channel is watched like a hawk by USCG and Sheriff boats. If there were a problem of a few they should be handled by the Sheriff. They are not far away.

 

[ricohman]

Re: Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

Looks like a case a few idiots wrecking a good thing for all.
Not the first time this has happened. The off-road world has suffered greatly in this regard.

 

[NewfieDan]

Re: Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

Not sure what its like down in your neck of the woods but here in Canada we have a law that says that any body of water has to have public access. It basically means that this law is void before it gets written by a higher law. Lake Ontario is a public body of water and there fore access to it cannot be restricted under Fisheries and Oceans Act. The only exemption is for reservoirs for drinking water or for such thingsas Tailings ponds for mines and such. I doubt very much if Lake Ontario could be considered a reservior.

In Canada, if I wanted to I could walk across their lawn to set up my grill "on their beach". The home owners would have no say.

Not sure if US has a similar Act in place.

 

[DuckHunterJon]

Re: Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

While I have never rafted up with other boaters, I still hope this doesn't go through. It would set a precedence and happen elsewhere (elsewhere there are wealthy waterfront property owners that is). I like the parade idea, I figure 100 - 150 jet skis for a few days ought to do the trick!

 

[hog88]

Re: Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

I think they got something simmilar passed on a lake or two in Texas so it is doable.

 

[CaptOchs]

Re: Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

I like the boat parade issue whether the regulation passes or not. Make as much noise as you can.

I can't find much information regarding special regulations on the Great Lakes. I like the Canadian Fisheries Acts (mentioned above) with the exception of beach use. If there's a private beach and you ask me to leave or post a no trespassing sign so be it. However boaters should have unrestricted access to all areas of the water except in extreme cases where safety is involved; a dam, swimming beach, parks, etc.

Last year Irondequoit spearheaded an effort to not allow an offshore wind farm project to go forward. These wind turbines were at least a mile offshore. Well beyond the towns legal reach in any legal circumstance. Enough towns jumped on the bandwagon saying it "destroys the natural view of the lake" they pulled the plug on the project.

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

...In Canada, if I wanted to I could walk across their lawn to set up my grill "on their beach". The home owners would have no say....

C'mon over. Can I keep your barbeque after I toss your carcass off my property?

Kidding aside - You sure about that law and the bodies of water it applies to?

It is sad the doofus brigade usually instigates the requirements for this kind of action.

On an upbeat note, the beach you see in my avatar is privately owned. There is a sign on a tree saying all are welcome - the only proviso is to clean up after yourself. That and no big bonfires.

Although not particularly large it's a very popular spot - often with many boats beached or anchored offshore while folks enjoy a day in the sun - for the most part with few idiots to ruin it.

 

[NewfieDan]

Re: Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

C'mon over. Can I keep your barbeque after I toss your carcass off my property?

Kidding aside - You sure about that law and the bodies of water it applies to?

Positive. We used to own a building lot on a small lake. Had to check it out. the same Act also applies to putting up buildings. the property owners don't own the beach. The own up to 10m (30ft) from the highest water level of the lake. After that the land belongs to the Government. Access can't be denied to Gov't (Crown) land.

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

Hmmmmm - that would put the boundary about the middle of my deck. Would that be an acceptable spot for your grill?

Think I'll check that deed...

 

[Mikeyboy]

Re: Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

It's nice that the owners of that beach allow public use. Hopefully no idiots ruin it for everybody.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

If someone were camping on a beach in front of my house and leaving trash/charcoal leftovers, and being a disruption in general, I'd want them gone, too. However, the onus is really on the homeowners who purchased their homes while knowing that the beaches are open to the public and would likely have some riffraff from time to time. If you don't want to deal with people you don't know around your property, don't buy a place with public land nearby. I fully enjoy our lakehouse property which includes all property to the shoreline. If I don't want people there, I can remove them legally.

 

[shrew]

Re: Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

Cities in Fla. tried the same thing. It was overturned by the state. The city ordinance can't supercede state law down there. This is nothing new. We had similar issues back in the 80's in New Hampshire. People who spend LARGE dollars on water front property don't want to their view spoiled. They will come up with every excuse imaginable to maintain THEIR piece of the water. everything from noise, litter, indecent exposure (ya right I never saw it), trespassing, even claims of property damage and theft. the reality was, it was nothing like that. I anchor out in busy anchorages every weekend all summer. I don't see any of what these property owners claim is occurring in their areas.

Expensive property pays high property taxes to the city/town. Boaters, some of which are transient, do not. It doesn't make it right. Nowhere are you allowed to trespass on private property, even if you are legally allowed to anchor in front of the property.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

Here's one way to do something about it and learn a lot about some of the other things that are being done behind our backs..

http://www.keepamericafishing.org/action/take_action

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Town debates exclusion zone for boats on Lake Ontario shore

Positive. We used to own a building lot on a small lake. Had to check it out. the same Act also applies to putting up buildings. the property owners don't own the beach. The own up to 10m (30ft) from the highest water level of the lake. After that the land belongs to the Government. Access can't be denied to Gov't (Crown) land.

A quick (and admittedly sketchy) perusal of the legal situation in Ontario would seem to indicate that access to land up to the high water mark was granted under the The Bed of Navigable Waters Act until 1951 when the concept of high water mark was struck down in all cases except artifical flooding due to hydroelectric dam operations.

The right to troll endlessly past the same piece of property, or anchor with stereo blasting is alive and well, upheld by the Canada Shipping Act (as long as such anchoring doesn't impede navigation).

For actual access to land there must be a public right of way, but many of these were downloaded to municipal governments over the years - who - seeing the potential of a good cash grab - have been selling them off to private landowners.

As the Great Lakes cruising blog Sweetwater sums it up nicely in their excellent article on the issue:

"We have heard boaters cite a notion of a right to go ashore for temporary activities such as cooking dinner. It doesn’t exist...The bottom line for cruisers in Ontario is that they should not go around citing the high-water mark as an upper limit on their activities."

In the US there seem to be far greater rights of public access to shorelines than in Canada - in the Great Lakes bordered by US states, these rights appear to be enshrined in something called the Public Trust Doctrine. I was going to start reading it but decided to go eat dinner instead. Anyone with a burning desire is invited to fire up the ol googleator...