The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

[boater1234]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

Hey thanks for the good info again.First question the price quote was that for a 15 or 20hp merc?

Second question is that including tax and the shipping like the tohatsu is?

I found a 20hp electric start merc this morning for $2529 at a place called dougs marine which is a late 2009 model same as this yr but add tax u are at around $2700 or more which is good considering how expensive a new 2010 is.

If the price u gave me is for the 20 i might go that route.But the tohatsu 20 is $2480 out the door right?might just go with that also so i will see when u get back.I only have $2100 cash at the moment and need at least till the end of this month to get the rest,so if u can let me know about the merc thanks.If i get the tohatsu do u have to order that to or is it in stock?

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

That was for the 20 Merc. You have to pay sales tax on top of that, but there is no freight...You have to pay sales tax on anything you buy from a dealer in Florida. We would have to order in the Tohatsu as well.

 

[boater1234]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

Well thanks for the pricesi just called the place i bought my 9.8 2stroke around 10 yrs ago and he can get me a 20hp tohatsu for $2259+tax which is cheaper then anywere else so if i go that route that is were i will go.I need to save as much money as i can so a few hundred is a few hundred.A 15hp is only $1975 +tax which is good to so now it is just a matter of choice.Thanks for all the advice.

 

[boater1234]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

Just a quick question to anyone reading this i found a rare 15 hp 2stroke yamaha new in the box for $1995 what do u think of having the 2stroke over the 4stroke,what would u do in that situation?As i have decided to get the 20hp tohatsu but the 15 2stroke is only 79lbs very light so now that is in consideration.Thanks for any opinions.

 

[boater1234]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

Well i called online outboards today and they said they have personally tested all the motors against eachother on the same boat and weight.

That is the honda 15hp,yamaha 15hp,15hp tohatsu and the suzuki 15hp and according to them the tohatsu hands down won in all the tests they did,power,top end speed,they did say the honda was the quietest out of all of them and no motor beat anyone real bad but the tohatsu beat the average speed by 4.5mph the closest was the suzuki that they sell also and they said it is a outstanding motor as well as all the others and don't shy away from any of them.

There favorite overall was the suzuki because of how light it is and it had great torque through the whole rpm range and had the smallest displacement at 302cc's.The best overall was the tohatsu for torque through the rpm range espically from the get go,it compared close to a 2stroke.[This is what they told me on the phone/it is not made up i'm not smart enough to make this stuff up so that should tell u something.

 

[JimXeod]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

What motor did u say u had?That is a amazing top speed for a 15hp motor,is that gps or just a round about guess.No problem getting on plane at all shoots right out of the hole huh.

2009 Mercury 15. GPS measured. Bear in mind I am using a 10p stainless prop (Solas) and that may not work for every application. It works for me as my boat is an air-deck that weighs in at just over 100lbs without people/gear. Total empty weight dry about 215lbs with the motor. Takes a second or so longer to plane, but helps on the top end. It still jumps out of the hole real fast. Stock prop, which was a 9p was 24.6 top speed. Still not bad.

 

[JimXeod]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

Hey TG, did you ever check out the carb body specs? I would hate to order the jets only, and have a rich running condition.

If you look at this diagram, the body SHOULD be the same. Let me know what you think?

http://www.marinepartsplus.com/catalog/mercury_4/serial/15_Carb_2CYL_4-STROKE/898103160/13934-100

Jim

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

The drawing can't be used as a guide as it is just a non technical line drawing. I haven't had a 15 or a 20 in in the last two weeks so I don't have a way to compare them. I have a 20 due in on Monday, but, since no one ever buys the 15, it may me sometime before I have the chance to make a comparison of the measurements.

 

[greenmtnboat]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

Actually the new 15 and 20 ARE the same except for the carb (jets and main nozzle) and prop pitch. I have confirmed that it is just that simple. Bear in mind this is for the 2009 and newer 15's. Has to be the 351cc verison. The 08's were different.

See this diagram

www.marinepartsplus.com/catalog/mercury_4/serial/15_Carb_2CYL_4-STROKE/898103160/13934-100

I was going to do the swap soon. I plan on just doing the carb internals. If you get them make sure you get the right ones, as they are different for Tiller and Remote. I posted this question months ago, and got nothing but "guesses" and "probably not's" until Tohatsu guru helped out on the Tohatsu side, and confirmed, it is just a carb difference.

Upon looking into it, they share the same carb, just different nozzle and jets. I will say this, this 15 feels as strong as a 2-stroke 15 as it is. Very strong for a 15 4-stroke!

Hopefully I have given some help!

Very interested in how you make out, please let us know!

 

[boater1234]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

This is for TG.Just have a quick question for u is there are huge difference in the 15 and 20? I really need to know this as u seem to have the best overall experience with these motors.Let me just tell u what i'm thinking i have a 1436 lowe jon boat not the lite the lake jon rated for a 20hp motor.I have been going back and forth with the 15hp suzuki and 15 or 20hp tohatsu and this is the hardest choice i have ever made.

I go to tin boats alot and a guy has the same boat and a suzuki 15hp and with a 11pitch prop he gets 27.8mph.He tried the standard 9 pitch prop and over reved everytime he went out no matter what the weight.I would have to assume that the tohatsu 15hp would better that as the gear ratio is better and displacement is greater or am i wrong?Also the suzuki is 17lbs lighter i'm sure every little weight off the transom is better for performance.

He did the same as i am doing suzuki or tohatsu and he said he is happy as heck but wonders what the 20hp tohatsu would of brought instead.Can u shed some good insight on this do i really need a 20 or will a 15 do a great job and does it really honestly justify spending the extra money on it?My boat is rated for 3people or 375lbs that is 125lbs a person,no one weighs that anymore unless you are one of the few people who do,so i weigh 250lbs myself so there is almost all the weight and my brother who is 250lbs will come sometimes and the boat is rated for a total of 700lbs.

So me,brother,motor and the gear is right at 700 to 800lbs.Do u think the motor will have enough get up and go as long as i distribute the weight right.Maybe i under estimate the power of these motors that is why i'm asking u first hand for help.Do u think the 20 is going to make a difference for my boat and will i really feel the power difference or just go with the 15.

Also i figured i would add in i'm loosing weight so by the end of the yr i will be 200lbs or under so that will shed at least another 60lbs off the boat.I need your 100%honest opinion so i don't look back and say i screwed up as i'm on limited funds so this is it for a long while.If u have confidence in the 15 then that is what i will go with if not the 20 will have to wait for a bit so i can get a few more bucks together.Thanks for any help.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

"am i wrong"

Not so much wrong as you are over-thinking your choices. I have no experience with the current Suzuki 15 so I can't really tell you what it can do in comparison to the Tohatsu/Mercury 15...I can tell you that differences amongst the same hp are usually close. Since there is a three mph difference between the the Tohatsu 15 and the 20 it is likely that the difference between a Suzuki 15 and the Tohatsu 20 would be a 2 to 4 mph difference with the correct propellers. I don't know of anyone that has had a problem with either model, so I would close my eyes, throw a dart and buy an engine.

 

[boater1234]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

Het TG thanks for the info,this is what troubles me if there is not to much difference between the two why do people always want to change the 15 into the 20hp if there is not to much difference,i see it everyday here so there must be something to it.Have u ever ran both motors and seen a difference from your perspective i need to know this and the next question and i will base what i buy on on your experience.

Also does the displacement difference of 51cc's between the tohatsu 15 and suzuki 15 play a big factor in the power of the motor or if u prop it right it is irrelevant,that i must know for sure because it seems that most 15's do get the same top end as i have seen tons of videos to confirm.In your opinion do u think the power between the 2 motors[15 tohatsu and suzuki] will be noticeable or not enough to really see.I know u have not ran the suzuki but can i get a idea in your head.51CC' seems like alot to give up to me but u would know so this will be it and this post is a wrap for me as i know i'm very anal at what i get and apologize for that.If i had money i would buy the 15 and if i did not like it sell it and buy the 20 but unfortunetly i don't have that money to loose.Thanks for all your help as i really do appreciate it more then u think.

 

[JimXeod]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

Not piling on here, but TG is right. I am overall extremely pleased with my 15. You will not be "sorry" if you go with a 15, esspecially with your budget. I do not have any experience with Suzuki. I just personally ruled it out because of the parts-service availabilty advantage with Mercury and Tohatsu. Never had a problem getting a part or service question handled. Ever. The new generation 351cc 15's are very powerful. In my experience right on par with a 2-stroke 15, which is very strong. I personally thought about changing to a 20 carb because I was taking my carb off for cleaning, and doing my yearly maintenance and figured if I could re-jet for $70 then I would. I spend about $40 a year anyway with plugs, oils, ect. If it comes to getting a whole new carb (~$200) then I wouldn't bother.

So, to better help you in your situation: If a 20 cost $200+ more than a 15, I would pass. The new Tohatsu-Mercury 15's are more than enough. Make sense? And myself, I just wouldn't buy a Suzuki. Not enough experience with them, and I don't know anyone who owns or works on them.

 

[boater1234]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

The reason i am in a pickle for buying a motor is i go to youtube and there are tons of suzuki 15hp 4strokes in action and everyone seems to love them from all the comments they leave and is very light,also has great power to weight ratio.I'm talking about 20 or more people with tons of posts to back it up and the tohatsu is the same alot of people love them as much.The suzuki is almost weedless because of the water intake being under the cavatation plate,plus it is lite,also no oil filter,and less money.The tohatsu is a great motor but it is a little heavier 17lbs more and is louder then the suzuki as it has a high pitch scream as the rpm's increase that i'm sure is annoying.

The boat is lite so i bet the boat will fly with either one.A guy at another forum has the same boat that i have and with the stock prop he went 25.7mph and over reved everytime out then he bought a 11pitch prop and lost a little hole shot but top end was 27mph running at 5950rpm's not bad.I think a 10pitch prop would do it just right.That tells me that motor has to have some good power to do that.Also the rev limiter is set at 6500 on the suzuki and the tohatsu is 6150 that leaves alot of extra rpm's not being used so u can actually run at 6300 or 6400 and probally squeeze a few mph more and still be under the rev limiter.

I have read a ton of articles and reviews and they both are right up there so this is why it is so hard,also there are more suzuki dealers in my area but there is some tohatsu dealers to so no gain there i just have to think it over and whatever decision i make don't look back.Thanks for the help jim.

 

[JimXeod]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

The suzuki is almost weedless because of the water intake being under the cavatation plate,plus it is lite,also no oil filter,and less money.The tohatsu is a great motor but it is a little heavier 17lbs more and is louder then the suzuki as it has a high pitch scream as the rpm's increase that i'm sure is annoying.

A few things
1) My Mercury has a water pick-up under the cavitation plate AND on the sides. It has both, making it a more reliable water pick-up system. I am sure the Tohatsu is the same. Having it on the sides makes it easier to flush using "ears".

2) The noise is barely noticeable at speed. You hear more wind noise than anything else above 20mph. Really a minor thing.

3) YOU WANT AN OIL FILTER. Always bothered me with my 9.8. I was told it is "not needed", but it always bothered me that it didn't have one.

4) 17lbs is nothing when you're at around 100lbs!

 

[boater1234]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

I'm not trying to start any battles or arguements but i called merc and tohatsu with what u said so i could confirm because if it has water intake on the lower unit and under the cavitation plate that is way better then one intake like the suzuki and that would make me go the merc route.

The 2 guys i talked to from merc and tohatsu said the only intake was on the lower unit[dual water pickup] and under the cavitation plate does nothing.I also asked them if they knew anything about the suzuki,the way the water intake is and the crazy thing is they said that the tohatsu and merc has it beat in everway possible but they said back in the days that was how all the smaller mercs were the way the suzuki is as far as the water intake being were it is and had way less over heating so i was a little suprised.When they get to a certain hp they go to the dual intake they said.

I also went to tohatsu.com and they show the bottom of the cavitation plate were the trim tab is and shows no intake either.I'm not saying your wrong i'm just telling u what they said maybe TG can help on this matter as he should know first hand.

 

[JimXeod]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

Look at diagram #'s 6 & 9. http://www.marinepartsplus.com/catalog/mercury_4/serial/15_Carb_2CYL_4-STROKE/898103160/13934-220



Don't beleive everything some guy on the phone tells you. When I flush the motor with full pressure, water exits out of the cavitation plate strainer, so it has to be linked to the water pick-up system. I would stop callling people on the phone if I were you. They obviously don't have all the answers, and you are confusing yourself more. At this point I have a feeling no matter which motor you choose you will not be 100% happy. You have spent too long researching every possible aspect of this, and it is just too much info! Calling manufacturers, looking on youtube, ect. I am not being a jerk, really trying to help, but you are losing too much sleep over this.

 

[boater1234]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

You are right i'm so anal about everything i buy i have been like this forever and i don't know why.I get so anal about my motor that 10 yrs from now u can come see my motor and u would ask me if i ever used it because after i use it in saltwater i clean it for a half an hour spray tons of lubricants on the inside and outside and holy crap if i scratch the thing i go nuts.

I think it is because i was poor growing up so i took extra care of everthing i had no matter what it was.Also today i have little money so it drives me crazy when people abuse their motors and don't clean them out and just let then go to sh@@.I had a 2001 9.8 tohatsu 2stroke for 7yrs and sold it to a friend and he asked me if i ever used it it was that clean because i took care of it.

But u are right i stress to much over this and i'm gonna have a heart attack if i don't calm down.Thanks for the advice and i see your point on the 2 lower strainers and the one by the cavitation plate.Once i get the money together i will just buy the 20hp tohatsu.

 

[JimXeod]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

Hey, I am not picking on you. I am pretty anal myself. I sold my Tohatsu to a guy that couldn't beleive it wasn't brand new, and it was a 2006. But, all the motors you are looking at will serve you well. I am more partial towards the Tohatsu made motors (Tohatsu, Mercury, Nissan) because I am familiar with them, it is easy to get parts, and they have never let me down.

I do over-do it with maintenance. I change oil, filter, and lower unit oil twice a year. Plugs and fuel filter yearly. Way more than needed. I am in Florida so I use the boat year round for the most part. So I do the servicing in Spring and Fall. No E10 gas. Run dry of gas and flushed every use, and cleaned and stored inside. It is always ready to go.

Hey wait a minute: Maybe that is why they have never let me down?

J/K Buy your motor and have a blast!

 

[boater1234]

Re: The new 4-stroke 15 and 20...

Yea i live in fl not to far from u in port richey,about an hour north.I really do like the suzuki also so i think i will narrow it down to a suzuki 15hp or a tohatsu 15hp or 20hp either way TG said that it may only be a few mph difference u may never need or feel so that is what the scoop is for me.Now i just have to get the money together and buy it.By the way did u get your motor at small outboards just curious?

Thanks for the tips i also have looked at used but have found nothing worth the money,These people are out of their minds what they ask for 5 to 10 yr old motors u can almost buy new for what they are asking.I even send a nice email to let them know that their stuff is way overpriced and they want none of it so that is why it will never sell i tell them.

No more of that i get sick of telling people the truth on how much it's worth and try to help them and they don't listen oh well.Funny huh i can tell u what almost any motor from the smallest to about 30hp what it is worth in real money but i don't ever run them.I try and buy and sell motors for a living and i have made good money doing it but never get a chance to run them as they sell fast,that has come to a standstill as my money has ran out i only had so much to start with and it was gone in a hurry on bills.


In 2mths i profited over $3800 and all my money back with it but the bills have eaten it up.I need about $10 to 20 thousand to start this business and i can make a great living at it hopefully one day i can get it going and not struggle anymore as everyone is always looking for a boat motor.I sell up to a 25hp motor as there is no one willing to come off money right now for anything bigger so i stay as cheap as possible and that is as heavy as i like to carry to my truck.