Take a read one this one guys

[swist]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

Let's get a little more scientific here - the definition of "volatility" is rate of evaporation of a liquid. Water is sort of volatile, gasoline is very volatile, acetone is extremely volatile. <br /><br />While it is true that many volatile liquids also burn, flammability and volatility are two different things.<br /><br />Having said that, the point is that gasoline, being quite volatile, will quickly form a vapor when in contact with even a small amount of air. Gasoline vapor, in conjunction with oxygen, is very flammable, explosively so in the right proportions.<br /><br />It is very hard to store and transport gasoline such that no part is ever in contact with air! So it is dangerous in almost any configuration.

 

[crazy charlie]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

Well the old Salt came over to my side of the marina today to thank me for my concern.He explained to me exactly what he did.He said that he 1. ran his blower as he always does to clear any potential fumes from the bilge 2.Opened his engine compartment for additional ventilation 3. started the motors and left them running 4. began fueling. He claims that since he cleared the bilge to be safe for any potential spark from the starters and had the compartment open,there was little or no chance of any combustion from sparks in the bilge.As I stated,I wont be trying his method any time soon but I guess there can be some sense made of his way of doing it.He said he has been doing it that way since 1964 which is when he bought his current boat.Charlie

 

[umblecumbuz]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

People sometimes reason that you could just as easily be killed by a chance circumstance - such as being struck by lightning - as by doing something like filling a gas tank while running a motor beside it.<br /><br />The difference is that you have no control over a lightning strike or some other chance happening, but you can CHOOSE whether or not to take the risk of filling your tank as above.<br /><br />Your life - your choice.

 

[QC]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

Originally posted by stillfishing:<br /> The difference is that you have no control over a lightning strike or some other chance happening, but you can CHOOSE whether or not to take the risk of filling your tank as above.

Exactly!! It is about choice. But think about it, you can also choose to stay in a hole and never have anything bad happen to you, so in that regard you can control being struck by lightning. I think that was my point. Level of risk. We make these decisions every day of our lives with very little thought about what the real risks are. I have described myself as a "risk taking safety freak". I preach about seat belts etc. all of the time, but I also run my boat when the weather turns others away. I always run my blower when I fuel, but I don't when I am starting up once out on the lake. I could easily have had a fuel leak while out cruising, so I choose to ignore that risk. How many of you are particular about all of your trailer lights, brake lights, brake adjustments? How many of you speed a little when towing? How many of you never drink and drive on the road? How many of you drink a little when boating? These are total contradictions and yet you have control over them and choose to go one way or the other.<br /><br />My point from the beginning of this discussion is that we all take calculated risks. It just appeared to me that the Old Salt did the same. He considered the situation and made a decision to fuel that way and IMHO he decided the risks were very, very low. And I agree with him.<br /><br />swist, totally agree on the volatility thing, my bad. The real issue is range of flammability isn't it? Fuel to air ratio. As you stated gasoline is one of the worst as the volatility leads to more instances of a combustible mixture. Wait until we start playing with Hydrogen, what a joke!!!

 

[MrBill]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

I don't condone what this Salt was doing...but sh$t doesn't usually happen when you're paying attention. He's consciously doing something stupid...so he's been accident free so far, but he's probably scarred in a few places or missing a few fingers. We can't be guuardian for everything, but we can stay clear.

 

[cuzner]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

Around here, marina,s will not let you fuel up with portable tanks.worried about fuel spills( and lost revenue from gas sales). I was taught its the vapour thats explosive. Had an instuctor light a match and throw in a can of fuel to prove his point. <br /><br /> Jim

 

[Boatist]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

I just have to disagree with everyone that think this is ok. He is not the only one at risk if he blows up his boat. The slips next to him are also at risk. <br />A boat at a local marine in a cover birth caught fire a number of years back. This one did not blow up it just caught fire. The boat burned to the water line, caught the dock on fire. The fuel did burn, the boat up stream in the dock the whole side nearest melted the dock and wood boat down stream also caught fire. Two shore fire fighter were injured trying to get a line out to the dock to fight the fire. Before it was over they shoved the boat out into the river and the boat floated down stream. It came to rest on a shore and started a grass fire. Fire boat from 10 miles away came and put out the boat and another fire truck put out the grass fire. The dock is about 20 feet out in the river. To get to it from shore your walk accrossed a metal walkway about 30 feet high then down a metal stair way to the floating dock. In this area is where the firefighter both fell. The piling that hold the dock are treated with a cemical that when burned is hot and toxic. On the dock ouly one walkway to shore so all boats past this boat on the dock were traped. Some people got their boats under way but some were old or young and could not get under way. No one killed but 3 boats totaly destroyed two fire fighter hurt and taken away. Several caught in the smoke and some scared half to death. This all happened at Sacramento Yatch Club. This type of thing could happen with this guy.<br /><br />This guy probably has never take a Coast Guard class and probably just does not know or care.<br /><br />Proper way to fuel is<br />Secure the boat to the dock, close all hatches and doors. Turn off the bilge blower. Know how many gallon your need to fill the tank. Get everyone out of boat. Open the Fuel cap and insert the fuel line makeing sure to keep fuel nozzel grounded to the fuel inlet. Fuel the boat. Then Close the fuel cap, open all hatches and doors. Run the bilge blower. Use your personal fuel detector (nose) and smell the bilge output air. Any portable tanks should be removed from the boat a filled on the dock. I think for trailer boater it is better to fuel on the trailer when your can and let your input and output bilge hoses clear the the boat while going down the road.

 

[umblecumbuz]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

Agree with Boatist.<br /><br />If the guy wants to take the risk - fine. He nmight get away with it for years. That's his choice, but it's not the point.<br /><br />Involving others nearby, or even risking the property of others nearby, is plain selfish. To continue doing it after the potential risk has been pointed out to him is crass stupidity.<br /><br />Make a great neighbour, wouldn't he!

 

[John McFarlane]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

Consider this.<br />Most bilge fans are powered by a DC electric motor.<br />This motor has brushes and a commutator<br />This arrangement generates lots of tiny sparks.<br />Sparks can ignite petrol vapout<br />Therefore, bilge motors 'may' ignite petrol vapour.<br />Exceptions: Bilge motors that are completely sealed, AC bilge motors, etc.<br /><br />Have you checked if your bilge extraction system has sealed motors?

 

[Boatist]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

Consided this.<br />Any bilge blower used on a boat is required to meet CERTIFICATIONS BY USCG, Just like the starter or alternator and distributers. I just pulled up 5 bilge blowers and each had over 5 certifications. All I checked had certification form USCG, NMMA, and ABYC. Some had 9 difference groups that certified the bilge blower.