Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

[jkust]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

How does a 2007 Bayliner 185 w/ 3.0L with 50 hours for $10K sound??

Even though it is a 2007, I would say that is a little rich for my area but I don't know where you are. For 10k I would keep looking for the 4.3. I wouldn't hesitate to go more hours or a few years older to get the 4.3 either. Seems like most brands got their act together with modern amenities and color schemes by the mid 2000's.

 

[Sirovc2]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

I hear what your all saying about engine size. The 4.3 would certainly be better. That said, I only use the boat for light crusing, taking the kids out for a swim, add the odd pull of a tube, or even a light ski. The kids are 5, 3, and newborn, so right now space won't be an issue. I know as they grow up, space and engine size will be an issue as they get into more water sports. My thoughts are to keep the boat for 5 years and then upgrade to something bigger/powerful.

All that said, I am now looking at a 2005 Bayliner 175 w/ XT package, which also comes with a wakeboard tower. I know this is a bit of a smaller boat, but feel it would be fine for the next 5 years. I have the guy down to $7800, which I think seems pretty fair. It just seems to be more practical and saves me a couple grand. What do you think about the price??

 

[kyle f]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

Too expensive in this market.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

A brand new base model 175 appears to be around $12-14k. If the boat you're looking at has some options/upgrades and is in excellent condition I think that is a fair price. Also the 175 is a smaller boat than the 185 you mentioned earlier and I think the 3.0 would be less of an issue. My uncle has an older SeaRay 175 with the 3.0 and he uses it for NOTHING but watersports with no issues.

 

[tmh]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

All that said, I am now looking at a 2005 Bayliner 175 w/ XT package, which also comes with a wakeboard tower. I know this is a bit of a smaller boat, but feel it would be fine for the next 5 years. I have the guy down to $7800, which I think seems pretty fair. It just seems to be more practical and saves me a couple grand. What do you think about the price??

Well, I know my previous post was ignored, but I wouldn't go out in that tiny, light, shallow-bow boat with three little kids IF the body of water I was on was large OR had med-large sized boat traffic. You'll get thrown around then be relagated to only boating during "off hours" on the lake.

That's why you see so many very recent model 175-180 type boats being sold used - the owners realized just how small they are. That said, YOU are doing the smart thing and buying used, so if I'm right, but you got a nice boat for $7,500 then you can likely get out of it with little or no loss of $$$ next year. Then upgrade.

 

[jkust]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

Well, I know my previous post was ignored, but I wouldn't go out in that tiny, light, shallow-bow boat with three little kids IF the body of water I was on was large OR had med-large sized boat traffic. You'll get thrown around then be relagated to only boating during "off hours" on the lake.

That's why you see so many very recent model 175-180 type boats being sold used - the owners realized just how small they are. That said, YOU are doing the smart thing and buying used, so if I'm right, but you got a nice boat for $7,500 then you can likely get out of it with little or no loss of $$$ next year. Then upgrade.

It sounds like you are intent on buying a small boat and moreso that you are budget driven. I am just thinking of two kids and a newborn baby that will likely have some sort of car seat and baby gear along taking up a lot of the little available floor space. Kids grow fast and space is even tighter especially in the middle to end of your 5 year time line when kids shoot up quickly. I grew up on a similar sized Bayliner and for the 4 of us it was cramped but ok. A third child would have made it uncomfortable and likely we would have complained more than we did. You can force the kids to go but not to be comfortable. Just wait until you find out one of them is a whiner. As for price, $7,500 is nearly pocket change when discussing newer boats so go for it. When you upgrade and sell you can always use the stand-by sales pitch of "economical to operate" when trying to offload a 3.0.

 

[kyle f]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

It sounds like you are intent on buying a small boat and moreso that you are budget driven. I am just thinking of two kids and a newborn baby that will likely have some sort of car seat and baby gear along taking up a lot of the little available floor space. Kids grow fast and space is even tighter especially in the middle to end of your 5 year time line when kids shoot up quickly. I grew up on a similar sized Bayliner and for the 4 of us it was cramped but ok. A third child would have made it uncomfortable and likely we would have complained more than we did. You can force the kids to go but not to be comfortable. Just wait until you find out one of them is a whiner. As for price, $7,500 is nearly pocket change when discussing newer boats so go for it. When you upgrade and sell you can always use the stand-by sales pitch of "economical to operate" when trying to offload a 3.0.

Do you see a patern here. The word Upgrade has been tossed in a lot. You will want to upgrade sooner than you plan if you buy a 17' boat. Especially with a 3.0L.

If you are set on a budget, look back a few more years at 19 or 20' boats with a 4.3. You really can keep that boat for 5 years.

 

[IVAZ]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

Bayliners have a stigma because they are built cheap as a pricepoint boat to get people on the water.

they cut corners in construction and options. Plus they are very light boats and suck on rough water compared to a Sea Ray, Regal, Fourwinns. However, they are very good for their target market.

Ha! Frankly I've yet to start up my '05 Bayliner, or put it in the water - so I really can't dispute your assessment. But I did find it pretty humorous the way you tore up Bayliners, and then wrap it up with the compliment (?!): "However, they are very good for their target market."

What's their target market...ignorant people that can't afford a Sea Ray? I'm sure that wasn't your intent, but it's how it comes across to a guy that bought a boat manufactured by a company that "cut corners", and that "sucks on rough water". Don't get me wrong, I knew going into it I was buying a boat that some feel is not in the same class as some of the other brand names mentioned here, but it's still funny to see a guy write this stuff.

Just curious, have you owned a Bayliner?

Their target market is people that don?t care that much about overall construction. Some people just want to get in the water. I have a 21 year old Celebrity so I?m also in that "target market".
If you read reviews about bayliners you will agree. Some people notice things like thinner walls on one side than the other. I?m not a boat snob but if given the choice between high quality and low quality for the same price you can imagine which one I would pick. This is why most people here are saying to pick the Sting ray over the Bayliner.

 

[jkust]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

I've got a little secret. I have a 1984 Bayliner Capri 1600 that weighs 1000 lbs dry with the 85 hp engine that has two 6 gallon gas tanks and a 2003 Chaparral that weighs 2900lbs dry which also holds 35 gallons of gas. The Chap fully loaded is a lot heavier. Some might consider the Chap a better all around boat than the 1984 Bayliner and should be a world above. For the size of lakes that I boat on in MN, there isn't a heckuva lot of difference in ride quality unless going very fast. Sure the Bayliner is a little thinner and you can hear the waves lapping through the hull but whatever I hardly notice after a while since these are inland lakes. I also personally paid well over $100,000 for my undergraduate college education back in the 90's but also attended a year of Community College first. The community college education was just as good as the expensive college but noone will tell you that either. I think the ride quality is more in the loa than the brand to a large degree.

 

[IVAZ]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

I've got a little secret. I have a 1984 Bayliner Capri 1600 that weighs 1000 lbs dry with the 85 hp engine that has two 6 gallon gas tanks and a 2003 Chaparral that weighs 2900lbs dry which also holds 35 gallons of gas. The Chap fully loaded is a lot heavier. Some might consider the Chap a better all around boat than the 1984 Bayliner and should be a world above. For the size of lakes that I boat on in MN, there isn't a heckuva lot of difference in ride quality unless going very fast. Sure the Bayliner is a little thinner and you can hear the waves lapping through the hull but whatever I hardly notice after a while since these are inland lakes. I also personally paid well over $100,000 for my undergraduate college education back in the 90's but also attended a year of Community College first. The community college education was just as good as the expensive college but noone will tell you that either. I think the ride quality is more in the loa than the brand to a large degree.

Ok let?s see here, community college is taught by professors. The "expensive college? is taught by professors. Both schools want to provide a good education. I wonder why they are both just as good.
A 1984 Bayliner and a 2003 Chapp are not the same at all. Yes their both boats and that?s the extent of their similarities.
The fact is Bayliner is an entry level boat no matter how good you may think it is. If the choice is given between entry level and a boat that is a notch higher why would you want an entry level? This is only true if they both are in similar shape and price.
I?m not against Bayliners. I?m just pointing out the facts.

 

[jkust]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

Ok let?s see here, community college is taught by professors. The "expensive college? is taught by professors. Both schools want to provide a good education. I wonder why they are both just as good.
A 1984 Bayliner and a 2003 Chapp are not the same at all. Yes their both boats and that?s the extent of their similarities.
The fact is Bayliner is an entry level boat no matter how good you may think it is. If the choice is given between entry level and a boat that is a notch higher why would you want an entry level? This is only true if they both are in similar shape and price.
I?m not against Bayliners. I?m just pointing out the facts.

Agreed, the college analagy is comparing brands and market placement. The college I went to is considered to be well branded while the community college is not. I practically expected my Chaparral to fly with it's brand placement but in reality the traditional v, 16 foot old school Bayliner and the traditional v, 19 foot Chaparral aren't that dramitacally different ride wise. I did not mention quality wise because that is not at all appropriate a comparison. I have a unique point of view having both an old bowrider from a poorly branded company and a newer bowrider from a better branded company. Yes a Bayliner is entry level but still gives a different but good boating experience on MN lakes especially given the low cost of ownership

 

[Action]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

Bayliner is like Minimum code for house construction. It is safe, will get the job done, will last but there is better. Bayliner is able to price their boats the way they are, because:
1)They are produced in Mexico (175, 185 model runabouts anyway)
2)They come with bare essentials for options, just the standard stuff you need.
3)They are able to produce them on a large scale

I think Bayliner is a great entry boat, certainly get the job done and they are one of the best selling runabouts for a reason.
It is just the same as housing there are more houses with minimum code building practices and not stepping it because it is cheaper to do it that way.

 

[kyle f]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

Bayliners have a stigma because they are built cheap as a pricepoint boat to get people on the water.

they cut corners in construction and options. QUOTE]

Uh, when was the last time you were on a newer baylliner? I might have a agreed 15 or 20 years ago but not today.

Last Season. A friend had an 18ft Bayliner 3.0 and I had a 19ft Sea ray with a 4.3 Fuel Injected engine.

He paid $14K I paid $23K..... worth every penny.

You can even hear how a Bayliner smacks over wake... its a lighter boat. Physics are physics. Ride higher in the water, get a bumpier ride. Heck, I could say the same thing about my friends Baja at speed. Once the hull design takes over and gets it out of the water... it rides like crap.. difference being its riding like crap at 70mph.

 

[TBarCYa]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

It is my understanding that Bayliner, Maxum and Sea Ray are all manufactured by the same company and seeing all 3 at the A/C boat show in February I can say that visually there are a few differences but not much. Bayliner uses wood floors whereas the Maxum and Sea Ray use full fiberglass liners, Bayliner uses plastic handles whereas the Maxum and Sea Ray use stainless and the gages are different but the hull and power appear to be visually identical. Am I missing something here? I didn't see the hulls without the liners so there's no real way to say if there is a difference or not.

Regarding the 17' boats, I'm on my second season with my Maxum 1800MX which is the Maxum version of the Bayliner 175. The sticker says it seats 7 and I've had 3 adults and 4 kids and even towed the kids in a tube and other than trying to find a spot for a cooler full of food, it handles that crowd pretty well. Of course, we don't spend much time on the boat when it's not moving so space isn't much of an issue. With that being said, I will be looking to trade up to something in the 24' range eventually but only to get a cabin for overniters and a head.

I did notice that you're looking at the 185 which is a bigger boat but when I was looking at the Maxums, the next size up actually had less interior space because of the sundeck on the stern. I don't know if that's the same on the boat you're looking at tho.

 

[sickwilly]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but is the Bayliner with the wakeboard tower you are looking at the one with the tower that leans forward?

If it is, I happen to think that is one of the uglier towers -- but that is just my opinion.

Ugly or not, though, if the kids get into wakeboarding it sure would be a plus, as it will tow better, as well as allow you to store the boards on the rack, versus in the boat, making more room for you all in a smaller boat.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

In the 18' size, I would save the money and get the Bayliner. The SeaRay is not a "SeaRay" in the sense that we know them. The stingray is not anywhere near the level of quality of the sundancer cruisers, or even the larger 24'+ runabouts. It is a cheap, entry-level boat that is realistically the same as the bayliner, only with some stainless or chrome accents to cover it's low-budget cost.

Actually, truth be told, I wouldn't get a boat smaller than a 20' runabout. Growing up in a family of four, it was the perfect size for us from children all the way up. Can fit 10 people, but I wouldn't want to have that many for more than a short trip. 4-6 people is definitely doable in comfort. I also wouldn't go for less than a 6-cylinder in the 18' and a v-8 is a must for the 20' sizes. It's unlikely that you will feel the need to upgrade to anything bigge than a 20ft boat unless you just have a large family or some money to burn when it comes to bowriders. The new SeaRays look cheap to me in anything under 24 foot or so. I'd buy an 18-20' Crownline or Four Winns over a SeaRay any day.

 

[tmh]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

well, IMO here's the deal on the lower priced boats. These $13000 boats just can't put much in there to really make them all that different and stay in the low price segment. The engines are all the same (well, either Mercruiser or VP - Brunswick all Merc I think because they own merc. The engine is at least 1/3+ of the total cost - so after bare bones construction, not much room left. Profits, transport, all that.... the rest of the boat HAS TO BE very cheaply made. So, a lower end Sea Ray just can't be the "Sea Ray" quality of a 35' cruiser that costs $150K.

Now, the "they're owned by the same company" really means nothing, IMO. So what? GM owns lots of brands, some the same, some very different. Brunswik may share some designs on the cheap boats for cost cutting, some they may not. You need to consider the boat and how it's made. A previous post saying they are basically the same mentiond a difference of "wood deck vs. Fiberglass liner" - well, on a 18' bowrider THAT may be the biggest difference you could have! Not a minor nuance. Plastic vs. SS is also major dif.

As a rule of thumb, weight per size (real size that is) can be a pretty good guide to build quality - not the only guide, but a good starting point. A thicker fiberglass hull weighs a lot more than a thin, balsa cored hull - just a fact. All else equal, lighter hull is faster, rougher ride, more prone to long term problems. Heavier is slower, smoother ride, more durable.

So, it's really about what the specific boater wants/needs/can afford/wants to afford. I never would say one is "better" than the other. Heck, a 5 year old Bayliner 185 with a 4.3L engine for $7k may be MUCH BETTER for a family than a new Cobalt 19' with gold plated fittings and $45k price tag! You see, maybe that allows that family to also afford college, retire, etc. That's BETTER for many families 9mine included, btw).

So, the OP of this thread needs to evaluate what he/she wants/needs and either share with us or decide on their own what boat to buy.

I'll repeat what I said twice - with small children and a worried mom, I'd consider a bigger, deeper gunwale boat even if I had to go a few years older. But, that's just me. I don't think you'll find that in a very small bayliner,Stingray, Sea Ray or similar. Heck, on some of these the bow seats are less than ONE FOOT deep in areas. Some far less. They look like launching pads more than safe seats to me.

 

[Sirovc2]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

Well, lots of good advice on here. Thanks everyone. I ended up buying the 2007 Bayliner 185 with the 3.0L for $10K. I know some of you think that was too high. I felt it was a great price for my market. I'm in Canada and the same boat here would be between $15K-$20K, so $10K was a steal. I bought it in Spokane, WA and imported it into Canada. I may upgrade one day to bigger and better as you all suggest, but for now I'm sure this will do us just fine. This boat was a bank repo and is truly in mint shape. I'm happy and the wifes happy. That's all that really matters.... right??

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

Sounds like a good deal to me. Let see some pics.

 

[Sirovc2]

Re: Stingray 180 or Bayliner 185

Pics...