Starter Relay non-OEM replacement not working...

[PirateDave]

I have a 2003 Larson Cabrio 274, Volvo-Penta 5.7 Gi-C I/O engine.

I have been having a start issue. It began not starting on occasion. Then more often. It would start if I pulled the relay and then put it back. Or if I tapped the relay. And then not again. Or it would start when hot, but not if I let it cool at all. Finally, I can't get it to start at all without jumping 30-87 in the relay socket.

I followed all of the T/S steps outlined by Don S., and everything points to the starter relay. I have power to the 30 plug, power to the 86 when the start key is turned, and I have good ground at 85. Jumping 30 to 87 starters her right up. Just to be sure, I have checked the power at the ignition switch and the neutral safety and all appears to be good. I replaced the relay twice and still not working.

The only thing I can think is that I have the wrong relay? I brought the old relay to several stores to no avail. Finally, Advance Auto Parts had a parts guru who found the same relay (under parts for a 1990 GMC pickup) made by BWC. Five prongs, and we both went over the wiring diagrams on the side of the relays a couple of times. It all looked good. Could there still be a problem with the relay? I have ordered a new relay of the original brand (Omron G8W-1C7T-R-DC12) that should be here in a few days, but am looking for ideas.

 

[Scott Danforth]

welcome aboard

its a generic VF4 relay (also called an ice-cube relay). the 5-pin is a double throw, the 4-pin is a single throw. its made by every relay manufacturer on the planet and is the most common relay type in the world (they cost about $.48 in bulk)

they are designed and built to a spec, so the manufacturer really doesnt matter.

make sure the new one is diode suppressed

most likely your relay is fine and the terminal crimps in the relay socket connections are spread out.

 

[PirateDave]

Thanks, Scott.

I'll bite .... is there a way to "un-spread" the terminal crimps?

I once had an auto-mechanic suggest turning the prongs on a relay about 20-30 degrees as a way to get access to the terminals. Never tried it though.

 

[Scott Danforth]

small flat blade screw driver. on the relay side, there is a small (and I mean small) rectangular little slot. that is to get the tool in there to release the terminal tang

if you have the terminal lock, you pull the lock first

I have a bin full of sockets and terminals and use the VF4 relay for dozens of projects. I dont even guess anymore, I pull the terminal out of the socket and tighten the rolled portion of the terminal a bit with a needle nose screw driver

 

[gm280]

Scott, I too thought that those relays were all the same, being SPST, or SPDT types. BUT, I did come across one on my neighbor's RV that was not the same but looked and even had the pin outs in the same places. So I started looking and found there are some different types with the same pin outs. Go figure. That through me for a loop. I always thought they were all the same until that day. So make absolutely sure the one you are replacing with IS pinned out exactly as the one you removed. Look at the schematic diagrams on the case to see and verify and save yourself some troubles. JMHO

 

[PirateDave]

Getting more frustrated by the day....

I replaced the relay I got from Autozone with one that was from the manufacturer of the original relay. Started right up. Three days in a row - a couple of times a day. (Yay!). Went on an overnighter across the bay, wouldn't not start the next morning. (Of course, I left all of my tools at home, including the jump wire.) I pulled the relay, tapped it once or twice, replaced and off we went.

Back home and again not starting. I went to a local V-P dealer and got a new relay from them. Replaced and still won't start. Pulled out the multi-meter and all the electrical checks are still the same. Jumped the 30-87 and it starts ever time. Always good power (13V) to 30, always good ground at 85, 86 gets power when my helper (way to hang in there, 14 year old daughter!) turns the key to start. I used a tiny screwdriver and did my best to push the female prongs in (it's now a bear to get the relay in and out, so it did something...).

About half the time, I feel the relay click (without starting), about half I don't. Occasionally, it starts. No apparent rhyme or reason.

Any other ideas?

 

[dennis461]

Getting more frustrated by the day....

.......... Jumped the 30-87 and it starts ever time.....

Any other ideas?

If this is true (not a coincidence), then your problem lies in the low current loop from battery-neutral switch-ignition keyswitch to pin 86 (if your positive goes there first, and you need a good connection to ground from pin 85.

I had a similar problem on a car, I cut the cover off the relay and pushed it 'ON' with a pencil.
Turned out to be a loose connection between key and relay pin 86.

Look for loose connections or corroded connections, you will find it eventually.

 

[Bt Doctur]

the relay does need a good ground.so locate the black wire and add an additional wire to a bolt on the motor

 

[PirateDave]

Ultimately, the fuse box itself was faulty. The box was positioned so I could never really see into it - can just see it from the side enough to change out relays and fuses. When we pulled off the entire deck over the engine compartment, we could see that there was at least one pin that was burned out. Not sure when/how it happened; likely previous owner....or else I melted something during all my troubleshooting a bad relay - I'll blame the previous owner and sleep better .

We replaced the entire box and now it is all good with the start - every time. It's been about a month and a half and starts every time (well, except when I have fuel issues, but that's a separate post).