Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

[BonairII]

I'm going to order a couple Rule bilge pumps later this week. (Rule 500gph automatic and a 500gph manual)

I'm constantly checking my bilge while on the water.....just cause I'm paranoid, and I like the idea of the pump cycling at regular intervals rather than using a float switch. The manual pump will be turned on for emergencies...and as a backup.

Anyone know where they can be found the cheapest? I've searched the usual suspects (Amazon, iboats, etc)....I don't want to order them and then find out that I overpaid for them.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

Ayuh,... I caution ya against the 'puter chipped pumps,...

I had a Rule 1100 gallon pump that checked for water by itself,...
It would run my batteries flat, just Checkin' for water....

I've since ditched it, 'n gone back to 2 float switches runnin' 2 1000 gallon pumps...

Now the only time the batteries go dead is because of water, not just the chance of water....

 

[chrisf695]

Re: Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

Ebay, Amazon... that's where I get everything. Period.

 

[BonairII]

Re: Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

I've been doing some reading on the subject...and it was my understanding that the electrical draw during "water sensing test" was minuscule. Am I misinformed?

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

I just picked up one of these from iBoats: Mayfair Ultima Bilge Switch - Johnson Pump 36303 - iboats

It was recommended here, and it isn't a float switch or a switch that cycles on and off, but rather it electronically senses the water. It will be connected to my new backup pump. Can't tell you how it works, because I haven't installed it yet.

Jim

 

[BonairII]

Re: Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

The Mayfair switch looks nice, but just like a float switch....I wouldn't want to find out the hard way, that it was not working properly.

If I hear the bilge pump cycling periodically....I'll have piece of mind that it's working. If it really does draw a lot of current(which I doubt), I can always install it so that it draws off my trolling motor battery rather than my main battery.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

I've been doing some reading on the subject...and it was my understanding that the electrical draw during "water sensing test" was minuscule. Am I misinformed?

I unknowingly bought one of the 'automatic' pumps last year . . . it took me a while to figure things out. Every 2 minutes it cycles for about 2 seconds to 'see' if there is any water to be pumped. If the pump senses a sufficient amount of water, it stays on until it no longer senses water.

The current draw is fairly minimal for each 2 minute cycling, but I did some calculations at the time, and figured that if it were connected to the battery (i.e. as a primary pump) it would seriously deplete the battery in about 3 weeks time to the extent that you *may* not be able to start the engine. You would also have to disconnect the 'automatic' pump for longer periods of layup, such as winterization (unless you disconnect the batteries).

Sooo, I re-wired the pump to work as a secondary pump and do its cycling thing only when the battery switch was 'on'. I reverted back to my old reliable pump 'avec float switch' for the primary bilge pump.

 

[JimS123]

Re: Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

I've been doing some reading on the subject...and it was my understanding that the electrical draw during "water sensing test" was minuscule. Am I misinformed?

Brand spanking new boat and the battery went dead twice the first season. Disconnected the stupid auto pump and it hasn't gone dead again in 4 years.

If the pump kills the battery checking, then it won't operate when its really needed. The float switches are awesome!

 

[BonairII]

Re: Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

Just read that the pump draws .5 amps in a 24hr period.

My trolling motor battery will run my 40lb thrust motor for hours, so I can't imagine that an automatic bilge pump would even make a dent in its power.....but I could be wrong.

That's why I started this thread....to get multiple opinions BEFORE I buy something.

 

[trendsetter240]

Re: Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

Ayuh,... I caution ya against the 'puter chipped pumps,...

I had a Rule 1100 gallon pump that checked for water by itself,...
It would run my batteries flat, just Checkin' for water....

I've since ditched it, 'n gone back to 2 float switches runnin' 2 1000 gallon pumps...

Now the only time the batteries go dead is because of water, not just the chance of water....

I agree, best advice right here.

The problem with those auto sensing pumps is that when they fail they fail with the pump on. So it kills your batteries. I had the Rule 750 auto pump and replaced it twice in a season before junking it because of failures.

My recommendation would be to go with a standard float switch and a Johnson pump. Minimum 800 gph.

 

[Grandad]

Re: Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

Just read that the pump draws .5 amps in a 24hr period.

I was curious, so I looked up what Rule says. Pretty much what you quoted above, but that's not a very clear statement. What drains any power source is the amount of energy used over a period of time. Mathematically energy equates to how much power for how long. (E = P x T) Power is a multiple of volts x amps. Batteries are rated in amphours of capacity, so you have to understand all of the terms before it makes any sense.

Example: Let's say the pump checks every 2.5 minutes for .5 minute period using .5 amps of current for that .5 minute.
(This may mean a 2.5 minute or a 3 minute complete cycle, depending on manufacturer's info.)
If we assume 3 minutes for a complete cycle, that's 60/3 or 20 times per hour for .5 minute each or 10 minutes per hour.
So your pump is using energy at a rate of .5 amp x 10/60 = .0833 amphours
If you battery is rated at 120 amphours, it will continue to supply power for 120/.0833 = 1440 hours or 60 days.
Having 60 days of bilge protection sounds good, but how much energy remains after say 30 days at which time you try to start the engine? Mathematically, your 120 amphour battery is down to 60 amphours. Maybe it will start, maybe not.
I think whether this pump is suitable for your use depends upon how you use your boat, whether the pump has to actually pump water, the amphour capacity of your battery and the actual amphour requirement of the pump. - Grandad

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

. . . Just read that the pump draws .5 amps in a 24hr period.

My trolling motor battery will run my 40lb thrust motor for hours, so I can't imagine that an automatic bilge pump would even make a dent in its power.....but I could be wrong.

That's why I started this thread....to get multiple opinions BEFORE I buy something.

According to the Rule web site the 500 gph automatic draws 1.9 amps. Amps over time would be "amp-hours" as it is commonly known.

the thing about electric motors is that they tend to draw higher current when they first start up and then reach the steady state current draw once they are up to speed. So, the average current draw for the 2 seconds of cycling would in reality be higher than the 1.9 amps spec. So, maybe figure 2.5 amps average for the 2 seconds :noidea:

So, in one day it will draw about:

2.5 amps x 2 seconds/cycle X 30 cycles/hour x 24 hours/day / 3600 seconds/hour = 1.0 amp-hour . . .

So, leave your boat for a few weeks, or even a month and you are looking at 20 -30 amp-hours of drain. Most batteries will still have some life, but will they start that engine that has been sitting there unused for that many days :noidea:

 

[Bondo]

Re: Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

According to the Rule web site the 500 gph automatic draws 1.9 amps. Amps over time would be "amp-hours" as it is commonly known.

the thing about electric motors is that they tend to draw higher current when they first start up and then reach the steady state current draw once they are up to speed. So, the average current draw for the 2 seconds of cycling would in reality be higher than the 1.9 amps spec. So, maybe figure 2.5 amps average for the 2 seconds :noidea:

So, in one day it will draw about:

2.5 amps x 2 seconds/cycle X 30 cycles/hour x 24 hours/day / 3600 seconds/hour = 1.0 amp-hour . . .

So, leave your boat for a few weeks, or even a month and you are looking at 20 -30 amp-hours of drain. Most batteries will still have some life, but will they start that engine that has been sitting there unused for that many days :noidea:

Ayuh,.... 'n both yerself's, 'n Grandad's calculations don't factor in the rain water pumped out when the pump was checkin' for water, 'n Found it...

It was a dead battery, from bilge pumps, that cut yer boat trip 'round my bay outa the equation last summer,....
Again, sorry 'bout that,... I'm still kickin' myself for that,.....

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

Ayuh,.... 'n both yerself's, 'n Grandad's calculations don't factor in the rain water pumped out when the pump was checkin' for water, 'n Found it...

It was a dead battery, from bilge pumps, that cut yer boat trip 'round my bay outa the equation last summer,....
Again, sorry 'bout that,... I'm still kickin' myself for that,.....

No worries about the boat trip, but if I am in the neighborhood again . . .

 

[BonairII]

Re: Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

I was curious, so I looked up what Rule says. Pretty much what you quoted above, but that's not a very clear statement. What drains any power source is the amount of energy used over a period of time. Mathematically energy equates to how much power for how long. (E = P x T) Power is a multiple of volts x amps. Batteries are rated in amphours of capacity, so you have to understand all of the terms before it makes any sense.

Example: Let's say the pump checks every 2.5 minutes for .5 minute period using .5 amps of current for that .5 minute.
(This may mean a 2.5 minute or a 3 minute complete cycle, depending on manufacturer's info.)
If we assume 3 minutes for a complete cycle, that's 60/3 or 20 times per hour for .5 minute each or 10 minutes per hour.
So your pump is using energy at a rate of .5 amp x 10/60 = .0833 amphours
If you battery is rated at 120 amphours, it will continue to supply power for 120/.0833 = 1440 hours or 60 days.
Having 60 days of bilge protection sounds good, but how much energy remains after say 30 days at which time you try to start the engine? Mathematically, your 120 amphour battery is down to 60 amphours. Maybe it will start, maybe not.
I think whether this pump is suitable for your use depends upon how you use your boat, whether the pump has to actually pump water, the amphour capacity of your battery and the actual amphour requirement of the pump. - Grandad

I believe what Rule is saying is that if the pump just "cycles" every 2.5mins(without sensing water).....it will use .5 amp hr over a 24hr period.

My boat is trailered and only on the water for a day of fishing etc....then pulled and trailered home. So I'm not concerned with a pump failure while the boat is out of the water.

For those of you who use float switches....how do u check that they are operating correctly(short of throwing water in the bilge)?

 

[Don S]

Re: Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

For those of you who use float switches....how do u check that they are operating correctly(short of throwing water in the bilge)?

Lift up the float switch, or if it's an enclosed on, they usually have a knob you can turn to check it.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

I believe what Rule is saying is that if the pump just "cycles" every 2.5mins(without sensing water).....it will use .5 amp hr over a 24hr period.

My boat is trailered and only on the water for a day of fishing etc....then pulled and trailered home. So I'm not concerned with a pump failure while the boat is out of the water.

For those of you who use float switches....how do u check that they are operating correctly(short of throwing water in the bilge)?

Ayuh,... That pump'll be lookin' for water, while on the wagon to ya know....

I can reach my float switch, or 1 of 'em anyways, 'n just flip it up with my finger, if I care to test it...

 

[captain zac]

Re: Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

If you are so afraid of the pump not working then
why not just get a high water alarm ???????
Would that not give you time to react
Harry

 

[BonairII]

Re: Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

Couldn't a high water alarm fail also?

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Rule Bilge Pumps....who sells them the cheapest?

Couldn't a high water alarm fail also?

well sure but then so could you... you might pass out or fall asleep and not know it wasn't running.

Honestly you are being silly... Take good care of the boat... if it leaks FIX it instead of using it.... RELAX.... you said yourself that youi are paranoid... that is you and not the boat.... it has been made perfectly clear here by repeated people that the product you asked about stinks.... If I had 10 brand new ones I'd throw them in the trash......

ALSO a 500 gph is no where near big enough... in an emergency two 1000's MIGHT not be enough.

We have discussed those auto pumps on here dozens of times and NOBODY has had good luck with them also in 25 years of boating I have never even heard of a float switch failing other than broken wires, clogged with debris, or physically broken as in stepped on and those things would cause the auto pump to fail too... PLUS just because you hear the auto pump make noise doesn't mean that it will do it's job... loose hose, clogged intake, broken impeller, or low batts would impair it's ability.