Ralph Peters today in USA today

QC

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Re: Ralph Peters today in USA today

Try again
 

RubberFrog

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Re: Ralph Peters today in USA today

A couple of nukes going off would make a "big bang."

It seems to me that all we're waiting for is the public to gather up their collective balls and do what we will have to do eventually. What are we waiting for? Oh, I know, we need about thirty thousand Americans to die first.

All this obloviating and posturing (thanks, Ray) accomplishes nothing. Everyone is trying to impress every one else with their deep thoughts and critical thinking. It's all a waste. All this talks means nothing and changes nothing.

Libs hating neocons. Neocons hating libs. Libs opposed to total war. Neocons seemingly terrified of total war.

Bush is not a visionary. Visionaries see a problem and solution. Bush sees the problem. We all do! He doesn't see a solution. More troops, less troops, economic sanctions, more aid. None of that will solve this problem.

There is an enemy out there that hates your way of life. They hate you, your mother, your wife, and your daughter. They will not stop, no matter the cost, until you are dead. Or they are dead. They can not be cowered, cajoled, bribed or enticed to spare your life.

There is only one option. Obliterate them from the planet.

I hate long winded posts. I much prefer to speak simply and plainly.

Strike first.
 

OldMercsRule

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Re: Ralph Peters today in USA today

stevieray said:
OldMercsRule said:
stevieray said:
Murky,
I don't see where Christianity has modernized as much as everybody would like to think. There are way too many of those "seventh-century" beliefs you like to speak of still hanging around, stifling progress & repressing ideas for me to see otherwise.

As for the great scientific minds - as great as they think they are & the closer they get to figuring it all out, they run into that philosophical wall - WHY. They realize they are never going to know that & fall back onto the familiar.

I think it is entirely possible that all of "creation" is a huge accident - a coincidence of biblical proportion, if you will. Intelligent design holds no water with me - if it was that intelligent, it wouldn't all be so f***ed up! I see the pictures of the bald kids suffering thru chemo for uncurable cancers & ones horribly disfigured from birth just to die before they can learn anything - let alone about some god - and I have to say no intelligent designer could ever let that kind of thing happen.

Just some more critical thinkin'.

Hey Stevieray, Believe or not my own 'critical thinkin' brought me to Christianity, (born again), when my oldest daughter was 8, after being raised Lutheran but never quite makeing the connection from an agnostic much of my life until I did some serious thinkin' havin' three kids n' all. I just don't think ramdom chaos could possibly produce the wonders we see at night in a clear sky and the marvels of life we see here on this planet. The order of all things came from somewhere, (IMHO): Stevieray, and it works amazingly well, (I luv cosmology). The fact that things are not perfect is also the design it's called: "free agency". The 'cafiteria' part of my belief is how I reconsile a 4000 year old book and a 1700 year update "inspired by God but: written by imperfect men". I don't think others would like this discussion so I will leave it here, but Christianity has in fact modernized, Where do you and I get our rights as stated in a document a little over 200 years back? Why was slavery ended in the Western world? Some things ta ponder my friend. But as I said for me it's a done deal as it is my belief. Respectfully JR


Do I detect a little emotion & fuzzy feelings drifting into your critical thinkin' there, Murk?

No, seriously, I think that you have the right to believe whatever you want, and I respect that right the same as you respect my right to my beliefs.

There is a lot of good advice for living & some sound common sense principles (well 8 out of 10 ain't bad) in the Christian doctrine. We have adopted most of those into our secular laws - the ones that hold the most common sense, anyway. I mean, not killing, not stealing & not lying are basic building blocks of any civilization that would hope to last any length of time.

What I hope to see disappear are the outdated, obsolete, divisive & destructive principles that are widely held as "law" because they are in the book, too. Either believe all of it or none of it (you're with me or against me - no middle ground) is a statement I have heard in many religious arenas. Take that stuff away & it does carry a lot of good ideas.

Hey Stevieray, You're right: beliefs are likely not based upon logic and or scientific proof but a combination of many things fuzz, emotions et al, (and in my particular case: lots of my own style of critical thinkin'). Once one gets to the belief stage then Col Peters perceptions may be the rule. I know I will not pray to Mecca under any circumstances I can imagine. I agree that most modern Christian doctrines are positive, (and have demonstrable possitive effects on the world we live in). The problems you state are problems that seem to come up any time men or humans are envolved, (not a problem with Jesus Christ). I luv the "judge not les ye be judged" statement. That works real well when a Christian who thinks their opinion about their religion trumps mine, (which is frequent for me as I am a "Liberal Christian"). Usually stops 'em cold, (if they have the ability to accept critism n' think about the profound nature of the passage). Respectfully JR
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Ralph Peters today in USA today

There is an enemy out there that hates your way of life. They hate you, your mother, your wife, and your daughter. They will not stop, no matter the cost, until you are dead. Or they are dead. They can not be cowered, cajoled, bribed or enticed to spare your life.

Kinda sounds like the Terminator.....:%
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Ralph Peters today in USA today


a) Alll religion is hogwash.....
b) It is rules made by men for men to try to be nice to one another....
c) Or justification to kill of those who are 'unbelievers'....
d) The fact that people in the modern day world subscribe to such shiite baffles me.....

Not sure how "a" can be true if "b" is. "c" proves the need for "b". "b" answers "d" . . .

Ya make up the rules as you go....
That's what makes it hogwash......
The Aztecs worshipped the sun & held human sacrafices.....
Religion is whatever works for ya at the time.....
I want a divorce, so I'll make up a new religion......
& on & on.....
It is rules made by men for men to try to be nice to one another
You can have those rules without religion......
I'm not gonna waste time refuting your assertations point by point......
Convolute or twist the statements however you like, but they are true.......;)
 

RubberFrog

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Re: Ralph Peters today in USA today

One man's truth is another mans trash.
 

QC

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Re: Ralph Peters today in USA today

Haut said:
You can have those rules without religion......
Yes, but why do you follow them? What about adultery? Should it be illegal? Honoring parents? Should disrespect of your parents be illegal? Sorry for the hijack, all, but it is this absolute "I know it is hogwash, and any logical person does, so shut the flip up" thing that simply blows my mind. Funny how you roll eyes and suggest at the same time, that any points other than those you hold are, again, hogwash. BTW, I am only noting that you may have missed a thing or two that you haven't completely thought through . . . oh, oh, and I think faith is entirely logical since it is absolutely fact that we do not know why we are here or how we got here. What else ya got man? Spinning around believing in some religion you call "science" that hasn't got it figured out? Bizarre. I am not suggesting that the Wizard of Oz is behind some curtain in the cosmos, just that a belief that we are an accident of nothing from nowhere is illogical, unnerving and frankly, plain odd once you get off the "safe" train.

Haut said:
I'm not gonna waste time refuting your assertations point by point......
Well that's not very nice; I guess you're skipping that rule today . . . ;)

Haut said:
Convolute or twist the statements however you like, but they are true.......;)
No convulsions or twistage. It was a direct linkage and comparison of what I thought were your most specific points, listed chronologically and verbatim, no context changing, nor funny business. In fact I think they are quite worthy of your time wasting and require no refuting :love:

This sig seems particularly appropriate here 8)
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Ralph Peters today in USA today

Yes, but why do you follow them?
A: 'Cuz ya want to......
What about adultery? Should it be illegal?
A: No.....
Honoring parents? Should disrespect of your parents be illegal?
A: No.....
Sorry for the hijack, all, but it is this absolute "I know it is hogwash, and any logical person does, so shut the flip up" thing that simply blows my mind. Funny how you roll eyes and suggest at the same time, that any points other than those you hold are, again, hogwash.
A: Those are my opinions......
I never have told anyone to shut up.....
In fact I'm sure that I have said that I don't care if you worship the deity of your choice......
You can worship the porcelain alter for all I care....
But am I gonna do it?
Nope!
Am I gonna pray to Mecca?
Uh.....No!
oh, oh, and I think faith is entirely logical since it is absolutely fact that we do not know why we are here or how we got here.
You don't know that.....
You believe it!

Bizarre. I am not suggesting that the Wizard of Oz is behind some curtain in the cosmos

Now that one I could get behind.....:)

I must point out here that you are referring to god in the abstract.......

I was/am referring to religion......;)

It stands to reason that if their is one true god, then there should be one true religion.....
Regardless of which one it is.....Again, IMNSHO
 

QC

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Re: Ralph Peters today in USA today

Haut said:
Yes, but why do you follow them?
A: 'Cuz ya want to......
Well thank you. You have absolutely made my point once again. The prahlem is, some don't want to . . . they need a reason. And that was why this subject made it into this thread in the first place if I read correctly. Nice summation. Thanks again.
 

RubberFrog

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Re: Ralph Peters today in USA today

What does all this have to do with droppin some nukes?
14.gif
 

QC

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Re: Ralph Peters today in USA today

I'm really not cranked up enough to drop a nuke on Seattle . . .
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Ralph Peters today in USA today

Ya best not, we'll cut off your supply of Starbucks.....:%
 

treedancer

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Re: Ralph Peters today in USA today

Quote QC

I'm really not cranked up enough to drop a nuke on Seattle
. . .

Could we at least send the frog in and drop Faxx on them ….O never mind.8)
 

OldMercsRule

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Re: Ralph Peters today in USA today

treedancer said:
Very good article, and I think that a great deal of thought went into it; I have a couple of issues though. Issue one= <<The Cold War was a battle of ideas. Iraq isn't>>

Maybe I’m wrong but I count at least four different ideas on how the government should be run. The Kurds have their idea, the Shia, and the Sunni, plus Democracy.

And this part I can agree with part of it. Will have to bear with me a little bit, while I get into the remnants of the Ottoman Empire again.

<<Their motivations make them far more implacable, and even crueler, than yesteryear's ideological opponents.>>=I believe that Mustafa Kemal Attaturk ran into even crueler and larger boulders in his path to uniting and bringing modern day Turkey into the twentieth century.

His full name was Mustafa Kemal the name the Ataturk surname, meaning the father of Turks, was given to him by the Turkish people in accordance with the reforms he introduced to create a modern Turkish country.

In 1923 before he acquired the name Attaturk he started a campaign to Westernize Turkey, he did this at the expense of traditional Islamic law. His goal was to bring religion into submission to civil authority. At the time that was a handful, as at the time Turkey was run by religious Sultanates and Caliphates.he managed to abolish both between 1922 and 1924.He manage to get the education system off of the ground as well as give the women the right to vote, something that is unheard of in the Muslim world of the fundamentals that we are fighting even today. This is just a synopsis of his story, if anybody wants some heavy reading get a book on his life, he must have had leadership buy the boatload to get that ship off the ground. I can hear it now, common tree lets get to the point, OK here is my point, somewhere out there is a budding Attaturk, we may be fighting him now, but he is there somewhere. Our job is to try to identify him, and promote him, it will be hard to get him off of the ground, but it can be done. If we don’t we will be entangled in that area for decades.

So I guess your wandering what the big picture of Saturn is doing here? Well it is in answer to the big bang theory,how could a big explosion cause all that Hmmm? :$


This photo released by NASA Thursday, March 1, 2007, shows an image of the planet Saturn obtained with the Cassini spacecraft wide-angle camera on Jan. 19, 2007, as the planet's shadow stretches completely across the rings. The view is a mosaic of 36 images taken over the course of about 2.5 hours, as Cassini scanned across the entire main ring system. (AP Photo/NASA, JPL)

capt.la10403011949.saturns_rings_la104.jpg

Very Good Tree, (the Saturn part too). All this wonder can't be an accident, from an eternity of random chaos. IMHO. JR
 

treedancer

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Re: Ralph Peters today in USA today

Quote Omer

Very Good Tree, (the Saturn part too). All this wonder can't be an accident, from an eternity of random chaos. IMHO. JR


10-4 on that JR
 

stevieray

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Re: Ralph Peters today in USA today

Quote Omer

All this wonder can't be an accident, from an eternity of random chaos. IMHO. JR



Oh, yes it can! IMHO :p
 

QC

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Re: Ralph Peters today in USA today

According to your opinion, an accident of whom's stevieray? An accident would suggest that something or someone was trying to do something else . . .
 
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