Prop Recommendation: I have all the data :)

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: Prop Recommendation: I have all the data :)

Swiss, here are the actual test results for 2 different models of props and 3 different Pitches made by Yamaha for their motors. My friend has a 70 HP new Yamaha on a new OD 18 boat that weighs about 1,800 pounds total on these test results, and the best one for my friends boat was the painted steel 13 x 17" semi cleaver that turned 5,750RPM, but look at the other two props, one is an 18" that would only turn 4500 RPM at max throttle and the other is a 16" that only turned 5,050 RPM at max throttle. I will have to mention there is a 1/4" difference in Diameter between the Yamaha painted steel and the Yamaha performance props. Blade geometry can be everything in the choice of a stainless steel prop, if you pick the WRONG geometry. Here are the test results. The difference in RPM between the 16" performance at 5,050 RPM and the 17" painted steel at 5,750 RPM is 700 RPM. Don't let any well intentioned, misguided people tell you that there can't be a BIG difference in stainless prop geometry and RPM as well as performance characteristics of how the boat handles with each one as well, even from the same manufacturer.

SwissRPMDifferences.jpg


:eek:Sorry Swiss, but from looking at your present prop I think I would have to recommend a stainless prop for your uses LOL, I am not sure how long an aluminum prop would last on your boat.

H
 

rrhodes

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
636
Re: Prop Recommendation: I have all the data :)

I am sold on Turning Point Hustler props myself. They have the best price I could find right here at iBoats.
 

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: Prop Recommendation: I have all the data :)

Rrhodes, yes they do and they deliver a lottt of prop for the money and it helps keep this forum alive as well, which is reallyyyy GREAT.

H
 

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: Prop Recommendation: I have all the data :)

Swiss, here are a couple of charts showing the RPM, True Speed and Prop Slip for these same propellers. Sometimes it is easier to see the comparison differences with charts than with numbers.

SwissPropChartComparison2-1.jpg


H
 

swiss

Cadet
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
11
Re: Prop Recommendation: I have all the data :

Re: Prop Recommendation: I have all the data :

H you are way to into props :)

Can you explain the last chart? The first graph illustrates that with speeds below 30 the prop is not that different. The second graph illustrating slip I am reading the ss has a higher slip which I would asssume is bad?

I did not do all that damage!!! I bought the boat recently and have repainted and sprayed rhino liner ok interior! Looks brand new. Now tweaking.
 

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: Prop Recommendation: I have all the data :)

Swiss, to the normal person what you are saying appears to be correct, but that is not what is actually happening. If you will first look at the Real Speed Chart, you will notice that the Painted Steel 17" and the Performance 16" track almost exactly parallel together, in RPM and Speed, which implies that they are theoretically the SAME Pitch. But as the Performance 16" reaches 4,000 RPM the Slip goes to 7%, which is about the normal Slip for a stainless prop running at WOT RPM on most boats. At 5,050 RPM the Performance 16" is now at 3% Slip and the prop at this stage does NOT have enough thrust left from the torque and horsepower of the motor to develop any more RPM, because of the geometry and surface area of the prop. But yet the Painted Steel, as a semi cleaver prop has 700 RPM left it can turn to 5,750, because of the geometry and much less surface area design of the prop, as well as it is moving less mass but yet it is enough to push this boat at this weight with the mass of water that it is moving. It requires less thrust from the prop, and thus less torque and horsepower, as well as it is finally reaching the full 70 horsepower from the motor at 5,500 to make it able to attain almost the full RPM rating of the 70 horsepower at 6,000 RPM.
There are many different theories on prop slip in normal planing boats, my opinion is when you get to below 7% or less Slip you have too much blade surface area, diameter and/or geometry for that particular boat, motor and prop combination, unless you normally carry a heavier load in the boat. At that point you need to change blade surface area, either by geometry or Diameter to increase your RPM and speed, which is usually easy to do with prop Diameter. If you will look, there are a good many props that as the pitch goes up the diameter of the prop comes down. Most of the highest speed props revolve around the theory of a 2 to 1 relationship. Meaning that the pitch is twice the diameter of the prop.
Not that many people ascribe to this way of thinking, but it absolutely works because you are reducing surface area from ANY prop when you have a smaller Diameter and the same blade geometry. You have to remember that the hub for outboards and sterndrives is approximately 25% to 30% of the diameter of the prop. So if you theoretically have a 15" Diameter prop and the hub is let's say 5", for easy working numbers, then that means on that Diameter prop that the blades represent only 10" of that 15". If you decrease the Diameter to 14", the hub size does not change, so you effectively decreased the prop blades to 9", and theoretically with the same geometry prop you now only are moving 90% more or less of the water that you were moving with a 15" prop. And physics doesn't change, when you only have 90% of the mass(water) being pushed behind the prop then you will always have an increase in RPM because of the less thrust that is required to push that amount of water.
Sorry, I got sidetracked, I didn't really answer your question on Slip. After you pass about 7% Slip in most normal planing hulls and stainless props it is eating up RPM that could be used for higher speeds. So in my opinion, when you show less than 7% Slip it is usually stopping you from reaching higher speeds that could be attained with a prop with less diameter and/or less surface area in the same or similar geometry of prop elements, unless you normally carry a much heavier load in the boat.

H
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
172
Re: Prop Recommendation: I have all the data :)

Your speedometer is likely a few mph fast, 13" pitch is way too high. Switch to a 10" or 11" pitch, 4600 RPM is 1000-1400 too low. E.g., I can run a 10x13 al OMC prop with 1983 Johnson 35 on a very fast boat (15' Allison fishing boat, pad bottom) although 10x15 is better.




Current Specifications

Boat: 1993 Lowe 1448M weight~ 360 lbs 15 foot boat, flat bottom
Motor: 1993 Evinrude 30 HP weight~80 lbs
Gas Tank, Battery, Driver weight ~ 250 lbs

Total Weight ~680 lbs

Current Propeller: 10x13 aluminum (moderate nicks, wear etc)
RPMs = 4600 WOT
Top Speed 29 mph

Conditions
flat water or slight chop
70 degree outside, 62 degree water
motor is mounted up ~2 inches higher running at maximum height/performance

Boat mainly used for fishing/utility, max weight would be 1000lbs, boat, motor, gear and humans

I have gone through the prop charts and to increase the RPM I would need a 4" pitch change going from a 13 to 9, sounds pretty radical?

I believe WOT recommendations are 5200-5500 for this motor?

Recommendations Please, looking for top speed,

Thanks all, I have been digging through threads to get the Tach setup, and raise motor etc.

Steve
 
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