Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

[Mark42]

Today I made a cardboard mock up of the photo mock ups of the hard top design I posted a few weeks ago. Spent better half of the afternoon measureing and cutting cardboard. The important part was to get the sides and top on so I could sit in it and get a feel for the space it provided.

All in all, I was very happy with the look and feel of the hard top. Wife and I sat inside for a while discussing changes that would make it easier to do simple over-nighter trips with the kids. So next step is to go pick up some foam boards and start the fabrication. I will make the top easy to remove in one piece, just like the existing windshield. That will allow me to fit it back into the garage if I want to work on it inside.

Here are some photos I took. The wind started to kick up and threatened to tear my cardboard top off!

 

[KnottyBuoyz]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Can you stand up in it without wackin' your head Mark?

 

[Mark42]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

My head just touches (5'8"). My wife (5'1") has no problem. I think I will lower the floor where the ski locker is (it starts about 1 foot behind the cuddy/helm and extends all the way back to the splashwell). The stringers are flush with the seat bases, so If I open up the ski locker the full width between the stringers, I can lower the deck 3" and still have 2" of bilge. And I end up with about 22" wide deck in that area between the seats. Because I'm only modifying the ski locker space, it should not be a structural issue. And I'll leave the deck in the rear flush from side to side outside the hard top. So when you are outside the hard top, and go to enter the hard top, there will be a 3" step down.

 

[lmannyr]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

You might wack your head when taking on waves. Even 3 inches may not be enough. Otherwise, the mock up looks good. Thanks for posting your progress.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

You might wack your head when taking on waves. Even 3 inches may not be enough. Otherwise, the mock up looks good. Thanks for posting your progress.

Waves? Waves? Nobody ever told me there would be waves!

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

raise the roof, cheaper, and why tear into a good hull, for 3 inches.

 

[KnottyBuoyz]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Waves? Waves? Nobody ever told me there would be waves!

Yeah Mark, the potholes in the water!!!

What did you decide to use as your core material for the hard top?

 

[Mark42]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

raise the roof, cheaper, and why tear into a good hull, for 3 inches.

I don't want the roof getting too high for two reasons, 1) the higher it is, the more wind will push it around and make docking and maneuvering more difficult and 2) It will start to look way out of proportion to the rest of the boat (my boat vanity is showing).

I'm not "tearing into a good hull", I'm just opening up the existing ski locker to its maximum width, which just happens to be the full width between the seats. Not a big job at all.

Knotty, I'm going to give the Polyisocyanurate foam panels from the building center. I realized that there really isn't much actual structure to the top once the windows are taken into account, so even if the boards are a little curved, and not flat, I can sand, form and basically handle that.

If the foam does not work, I'll just switch to pine and luan ply.

I have been working on a good opening window design for the front windows that is simple to make, weather tight easy to fix or replace if damaged, and looks good. So far every time I pick up my sketch/design pad, I find a way to simplify things.

You have no idea how much time I spend on the internet searching for suppliers of extruded form seals, edging, sliding window track in stainless for the side windows (yep,they make it - just for boats!) etc.

I hope this comes out as good as some of the projects that other regulars have done, like Boomyals dog house.

 

[drwgblanks]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Mark, I'm anxious to see your project commence. I have been drawing up a design for my aquasport too. Here's a pic I doctored up from my crude paint program. I think the pilothouse would have to be a little higher though. This is the boat I always "talk" about restoring. You all probably don't remember, but I always tinker with the idea of stealing the engine from my Bayliner to repower it.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Wow, nice design. It really looks like it belongs there. Even if you make it higher, I think it would look good. I like the wood look.

Today I spent two hours looking at fiberglass supplies, calculating how much cloth, how much resin, hardner, etc. It adds up fast. I'm looking at close to $200 in glass cloth and resin to put two layers of 5.5oz cloth on both inside and outside.

Still trying to figure out how to finish it. Either gel coat or paint. It would probably be easier to get a paint store to mix a polyurathane paint to match the boats gel coat rather than hand mix pigments to get gel coat base to match. The Bayliner gel coat is a off-white creamy color. Doesn't make color match easier.

 

[drwgblanks]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

I've still got to finish my transom on that boat before I do anything else, so I'm quite a ways away from doing anything with the top. Especially with my son about to be birthed this week. Anyway, if you look in that picture, there is a center console laying in it from one of my other boats. It's fiberglass. I painted that thing about 12 years ago with Glidden or ICI Dulux's Alkyd Industrial Enamel. It's an oil based paint. (I'm a painting contractor so I had it in the truck)That stuff has really stood the test of time. I can still go out there and bleach it and it will look good again and has resisted peeling well. Just thought I'd throw that out there for anybody looking a cheaper alternative for topsides. It's shiny as hell though, but it flows really well.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Took and nap then went back to work on the boat. Took the glass off (it came off easy without any breakage or damage - about a dozen screws held it on) and did some more measurements. With the glass off, I feel like I can really move right along!

When trying to lay out the V shape for where the windshield will meet over the cuddy, I layed out a center line. Measured from center line to each side. The port side of the boat is 1/2" or so wider than the starboard! Gee, what a surprise . Anyway, the original windshield was three panels, with opening center, the hard top will be two panels. Hence the V shape. And most of the V falls within the nice flat area that the 3 panels used to sit, and that will make the fit of the hard top look more OEM.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Last night I spent a few hours messing around in Home Depot looking at and comparing 1/4" luan ply to 1" polyisocyanurate foam. After picking up 4 sheets of foam, and guessing they weigh about 10 lbs, then picking up 4 sheets of 1/4 ply and guessing they weigh about 40lbs, I decided to go with the foam.

Got the foam home and started playing around with one sheet, pulled the foil face off easy enough, but the other side is not coming off well at all. Then I realized this stuff is very flexable, maybe too flexable for what I want to do. It also has a very wavy surface, so I sanded lightly with 100 grit in a sander made for sanding joint compound on walls. Really smoothed it right out, but left lots of foam dust that is hard to get off the panel.

Now I am having second thoughts about using the foam. It is not as firm and rigid as the pink foam, but the pink stuff melts with poly resin. I could use the pink stuff and go with epoxy, but I still need quite a few layers of build up to get the strength I need, and epoxy is expensive.

I'm thinking of returning the foam and just buying the 1/4 inch ply. Even if its heavier, it will only need two light layers of glass in/out like when making a canoe. There is no question that the poly will stick to luan, and I can stay with the less expensive polyester resin/gel coats. I can make it using "stitch and glue" technology, with nice fillits on the inside, etc rather than a full box frame with 1/4" over it. Stitch and glue will save weight. Another plus is that the ply is FLAT and does not require prep work to make it smooth, and will therefore require much less fairing.

Also, when I took off the windshield I was really surprised at how heavy it is! Holy Cow! I'm thinking that the weight of the glass will easily offset half the weight of a 1/4" luan ply top. Probably even more.

So, thats where I am right now. I hate to go forward with using foam when I have doubts about getting the poly/glass to stick well, and how many layers it will take to make something of substance. I hate to do all this work in foam, just to have it start to fail under the stress of being on the water in a year or two. That would suck.

EDIT: one thing I left out that really disturbed me was an impact test I did. Placed some 1/8" plexy on the sheet of foam, then hit it hard with my fist. Yes, the foam compacted underneath. That is pretty much the last straw. I can't have someone banging on the side or pusing on it while docking and have to worry that the foam is compressing and de-laminating from the glass surface.

Mark.

 

[KnottyBuoyz]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

The foam will stiffen up quite a bit when it's glassed inside and out. It's only a core and doesn't provide much (if any) structural support. It's only there to keep the two skins apart, remember the I-Beam analogy?

It crushed because it was less dense than other foams. Normal SAN or PU marine foams are in the 5-6 lbs/cu ft range. What you have there is probably less than 2 lb/cu ft. Besides the fact it's not ideally suited for that kind of application.

The sump covers I made, if you remember, turned out extremely strong. I don't have any fear of standing on them. They were made with 1708 biaxial fabrics w/mat, one layer on each side. They're 2' on the long side and I can stand in the middle and they'll only deflect about a quarter inch. (and I'm no lightweight) How they'd hold up to constant stressing is another matter. That's where the foam will fail so if you're not walking and piling stuff on your hard top you'll probably be ok.

Foam gives you more options for making it look nice by radiusing the corners and edges to get some nice smooth corners. You can also build up the under/inside of the hard top by including battens glassed over. This will make it even stronger and able to hold it's shape. See photo.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

At this point, I want to get it done, and I'm not sure that the low density foam will hold up. The high density stuff is just soooo expensive, when I priced it out, it was over $300.

So, I returned the foam panels and picked up 1/4" luan. Its what they make simple stitch and glue canoes and stuff out of, so I'm sure it will work for me. I figure the top will need two or three ribs for strength and that will let me do a mild curve to help water drain off.

I really wanted the foam to work but I just could convince myself that it would hold up seeing how easy it collapsed even with a flat surface to spread the stess over a larger area.

I can still do nice radious edges, just not super wide ones that would have been easy with foam. I'll have to stay in the 3/4" range.

One problem I ran into with using (low density) foam is the fiberglass would have to be substantial thickness to support any real stress and to prevent the roof from caving with any snow or ice buildup while stored outside for the winter.

Anyway, I have the 1/4" now, and I'm moving on with the project.

So, using 1/4 luan, what weight fiberglass mat should I use and how many layers?

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

I've been watching this thread and like what your doing.
I've been thinking of doing something similar to one of my boats here.
Although it sounds like you have already decided to go with the ply, keep in mind that the width of the foam itself will add a lot of rigidity to the final structure, the width itself will add to the overall strength of the top. The foam really doesn't do much itself as far as strength, the resin and glass will do that alone. One solution would be to allow a few holes which would form sort of pillars mid panel to further increase the trussed strength of each panel. Those points could be filled afterwards to smooth the interior walls.

I've build several custom automotive hoods and panels, it's common to use either foam or fiberglass insulation to form structural channels to make a panel more rigid. I usually stay away from wood simply due to the rot and weight factor.

I was actually considering making a light plywood mock up, then transferring it to a mold and laying a color matching gelcoat first then building up the top as needed, much like a hull itself is constructed. I also have considered using part or all of an older fiberglass top as part of my form to make the mold.
I've also though about the possibility of incorporating an aluminum frame for lower support and a more durable attaching point.

What gave me the idea was that I had an old top here from an old Aristo Craft Funliner that I've use as a support for my boat cover over the winter. I was looking at how close it was to fitting, and other than the fact that it's so low, the lines matched up good. My first thought was modifying that top to fit, but it's too rough to bother with. It is in good enough shape to make a mold from though. I'd only have to extend the sides downward and form a lip to attach an upper windshield too.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

I have reconsidered and will by some denser styrine foam and use epoxy. A bit more expense, but it will be very light and easy to shape.

Can you say "flip flopper"?

 

[drwgblanks]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Comeon flip flopper, I'm ready to see a top on that thing. You have become our guinea pig.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Comeon flip flopper, I'm ready to see a top on that thing. You have become our guinea pig.

I prefer the term "Pioneer".

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Mark you have no lack of skill's or imagination, why do you not just take the carboard template's and cut out 1/4 inch plywood or 3/8 or what ever.Your off to a damm good start......i know it's easy to be a arm chair quaterback, but from here id use plywood and finish it.....good looking design