Pre-Alpha trim up/down causes engine to die while cruising?

Augie56

Seaman
Joined
Feb 26, 2012
Messages
73
I encountered a weird electrical "gremlin" this weekend.

History - '79 Wellcraft 196, Merc 228 I/0. I've had the boat out three times so far this Spring. In all respects, boat runs excellent. Starts well, idles well, loads of power, doesn't leak a drop. Great boat.

I bought the boat with the original one-battery wiring and kill switch. Took the boat out a few weeks ago for the first time this season, trim worked just fine. Went up and down, whether in the water or not, both when under power and when stopped.

Then, I bought and installed a two-battery setup, Perko 1-all-2-off switch, all wired exactly per instructions. Installed two new Marine Deep Cycle lead acid batteries. I have a manual battery charger, so I only left each battery on charge for a few hours (with the Perko switch in the off position). They both seemed charged up enough to take boat out, letting the boat top them off.

Took the boat out twice this weekend, and both times operating the trim either up or down when in the water stalled the engine. As in, stalled the engine like someone turned the key off - completely killed it, no sputtering, nothing. When this happened, I had no electricity on the boat and couldn't restart the engine UNTIL I cycled the batteries OFF then back on using the Perko switch. Once restarted, everything was back to normal. Trim worked fine with boat on trailer, before and after going out.

Sorry for the long winded expanation, but I suspect either :

1) I created an electrical issue with installing new batteries (although I'm positive everything is connected properly).

2) The batteries are charged up enough to run the engine, but not yet charged enough to operate the trim and run the engine at the same time. The alternator is a marine Delco-type one wire, with red wire connected to Perko + out terminal. Could the alternator be weak/shot?

3) Is it possible the cold water put extra load on the trim pump, caused it to overload and shut down the electrical system of the boat? The water both times out this weekend was probably in the upper 40's / lower 50's. Didn't seem to bother the engine at all, though. Ran great.

Thanks in advance for the help!
 

fmalott

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
561
Re: Pre-Alpha trim up/down causes engine to die while cruising?

your pre alpha is a MC-1 For the 228 it used a MC-1 from 79-82 then used a I-R outdrive from 83-84
i'm sorry i can't help you but i'm going to follow your thread as i just converted to two batteries also and i have not tested yet so just in case i have the same problem there will be some reference from here THANKS
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Pre-Alpha trim up/down causes engine to die while cruising?

The trim pumps main positive and ground were originally hooked to the battery, where are they now? Be specific.
 

Augie56

Seaman
Joined
Feb 26, 2012
Messages
73
Re: Pre-Alpha trim up/down causes engine to die while cruising?

The Trim Main (+) red is connected to the COM post on the back of the Perko Switch. The red cable to the starter and the red wire from the alternator are also connected here.

The Trim Neg (-) is connected to one of the battery's negative post. Both battery negatives are cabled together (black battery cable), so it shouldn't matter which negative the Trim Neg (-) is connected to.

I will be cleaning (sanding, die-electric grease) and inspecting all connections tonight. I also just ordered an automatic marine battery charger, so I can now fully charge my new batteries. When I checked them with my multimeter, they were only about 12.5 - 12.7 volts, so I suspect they may still not be fully charged.
 

fmalott

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
561
Re: Pre-Alpha trim up/down causes engine to die while cruising?

i still haven't read you testing the alternator you tested the batteries but you haven't posted a test on the alternator you should check this first then it would narrow things down
 

captk

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Apr 4, 2008
Messages
252
Re: Pre-Alpha trim up/down causes engine to die while cruising?

Grounds?
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
Re: Pre-Alpha trim up/down causes engine to die while cruising?

Sounds like a resistive connection somewhere... Cycling the battery switch to fix the problem leads me to suspect the new switch might have an internal problem.

Chris.........
 

fmalott

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
561
Re: Pre-Alpha trim up/down causes engine to die while cruising?

Sounds like a resistive connection somewhere... Cycling the battery switch to fix the problem leads me to suspect the new switch might have an internal problem.

Chris.........


i agree but it would be nice to know what his alternator is pushing out
 

Augie56

Seaman
Joined
Feb 26, 2012
Messages
73
Re: Pre-Alpha trim up/down causes engine to die while cruising?

Update....

After disassembling all cables and switch, I checked everything for continuity and resistance. Turns out one of the cables with the crimped-on connectors was worn through on one side and corroded on the inside. Also, one of the other cables that has a bolt-on connector had the same issue - greenish corrosion all over the copper strands where it meets the lead. The battery cables all ohmed out to around 1.6 ohms each. The bad cable ohmed out over 200 ohms! There's where my voltage drop was; from that battery at the switch I was only measuring around 10 volts. Between the weakly charged batteries and the suspect cable, I'm betting that's where the strange trim behavior was coming from. I guess I didn't check these thoroughly enough. Being the first boat I've owned, I guess I assumed they were good because all the connectors where present ant tight. Corrosion plays a bid part, now I know!

Now that the batteries are topped off, and all connections are wire-wheeled and corrosion-free, I have over 13 volts at the switch from either battery. I'll run it on muffs tomorrow and run the trim up and down a few times on each battery to be sure. I'll measure the alternator voltage with each battery switched in while running to be sure I didn't happen to fry the alternator, too. Fingers crossed....
 

fmalott

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
561
Re: Pre-Alpha trim up/down causes engine to die while cruising?

even if the alternator is no good very cheap to replace. you should be at 14.5volts in that area anyways. MAKE SURE it's a marine alternator if you need to replace GOOD LUCK!
 

Augie56

Seaman
Joined
Feb 26, 2012
Messages
73
Re: Pre-Alpha trim up/down causes engine to die while cruising?

The new charger I bought, Schumacher XCS15 solid state automatic charger, only charged the batteries up to about 13.7-13.8 volts. I suppose I could leave the charger on longer after it enters "maintenance" mode to see if they will go up a few more tenths of a volt. I'll be running and measuring voltage tonight...more to report later.
 
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