Pontoon Trailer Brakes or not?

[A.F.C. 8511]

Easy guys.
every mans actions are a result of his own situation and choice.
A man is responsible for any results or ramification of those actions and choices.
advice, or ill advice.
all is well

 

[JimS123]

Ok, So.
Who else would you recommend breaking the law to?
UPS?
School bus company?
Your daughters boyfriend?

You're spot on - nobody should break the law.

But,.... the poster you replied to never said he was breaking the law, and didn't specify the weight of his rig.

 

[bigdee]

You're spot on - nobody should break the law.

But,.... the poster you replied to never said he was breaking the law, and didn't specify the weight of his rig.

Good point. I'd prefer it if we stuck to the technical rather than the lecturing!

 

[HT32BSX115]

Ok, So.
Who else would you recommend breaking the law to?
UPS?
School bus company?
Your daughters boyfriend?

It actually goes way past "breaking the law" One can do that for many years and get away with it.

But run into (or otherwise "hurt") someone because you're breaking the law.......that can place you at serious liability.

Personal injury lawyers advertise all the time for these type of cases because they're so easy to win big awards.

I'd prefer it if we stuck to the technical rather than the lecturing!

Most of would agree but at the same time, no one should be so cavalier as to imply "hey, you're just fine with no brakes at all!"

I really don't think it's lecturing to suggest that is just plain bad advice.

If I was a Lawyer ( & I'm not!!) But if I was, and I was working an alleged negligent injury or homicide case that involved something like someone driving an unsafe vehicle ......and I thought I could PROVE he/she knew it)......I would have one of my "Minions" search social media sites of the "lawbreaker" to see if that person ever asked or discussed or bragged about NOT using a safety device to bolster my accusation of "Negligence" ......

Lawyers have all sorts of ways to find out information. (you can BET that forum administrators will respond to subpoenas to provide information about members past and present)

I don't think anyone here is "lecturing". It's just good advice.

 

[bigdee]

It actually goes way past "breaking the law" One can do that for many years and get away with it.

But run into (or otherwise "hurt") someone because you're breaking the law.......that can place you at serious liability.

Personal injury lawyers advertise all the time for these type of cases because they're so easy to win big awards.



Most of would agree but at the same time, no one should be so cavalier as to imply "hey, you're just fine with no brakes at all!"

I really don't think it's lecturing to suggest that is just plain bad advice.

If I was a Lawyer ( & I'm not!!) But if I was, and I was working an alleged negligent injury or homicide case that involved something like someone driving an unsafe vehicle ......and I thought I could PROVE he/she knew it)......I would have one of my "Minions" search social media sites of the "lawbreaker" to see if that person ever asked or discussed or bragged about NOT using a safety device to bolster my accusation of "Negligence" ......

Lawyers have all sorts of ways to find out information. (you can BET that forum administrators will respond to subpoenas to provide information about members past and present)

I don't think anyone here is "lecturing". It's just good advice.

No proof that ahicks was breaking the law from his post. My 20' pontoon has no trailer brakes and it came from a large dealer in NC. In fact NONE of his pontoons with single axle trailers had brakes....so am I breaking the law? Wildlife officers are routinely at boat ramp checking registration and they have never said anything about brakes. Yes brakes are a good idea to have but if your inside the law,your inside of the law. Sure lawyers can make a case for anything. In most cases if you have an accident and its your fault you will be cited for driving too fast for conditions,following too close,driving in an unsafe manner,not yielding right of way,etc. That is all the ammo a lawyer would need...brakes or no brakes.
What I just said are facts,not recommendations or lecturing.

 

[batman99]

For me (and my region), I don't care about trailer laws and brakes. To me, it isn't about he law. It's about common sense and "safe towing" wisdom.

In my region, any trailer (loaded or empty) over 3,000 lbs needs its own brakes. My Tow Vehicle is rated to pull 3,500 lbs. So, I can legally tow trailer under 2,999 lbs and government thinks I'm towing "safe". My same towing vehicle has a rear cargo capacity of 1,500 lbs. IMO, any weight about this number is "over taxing" its factory brakes. To brake my combo safely without over taxing the Vehicle's factory brakes, any attached trailer over 1,500 lbs has brakes on the trailer as well. To me, it costs very little to install brakes (electric or surge) to an attached trailer. I pay the price. If wondering, 3 of my 5 trailers have their own electric brakes.

If wondering, I was towing my loaded 6x10 utility trailer (weighing around 2,800 lbs) in a small village a few years ago and out from the front of a part vehicle ran out a blonde girl (the same age of my daughter). I panic stopped and my combo stopped 4" from her ribs. Even the witnesses couldn't believe my combo stopped so quickly. Without brakes on my attached loaded trailer and being properly adjusted, I would have snuffed out her life - without a ticket (since it was her fault). Since that day forward, I realized the "the law" in my region isn't that important. Adding brakes to attached trailer that weighs more than Tow Vehicle's rear cargo weight capacity is more important.

Long mumblings short.... Install brakes on your trailer and sleep (comfortably sleep) at night. Like my father always said... Only the wise people make a tow vehicle and attached trailer stop faster.... Those are the folks you want on the road with you....

 

[bruceb58]

My Wellcraft in my signature came with brakes on one axle. The reason they were able to do and get away with it was not required to have on both based on the empty weight of the trailer. I immediately put brakes on all axles because that was the "common sense" thing to do.

Many dealers will do anything to save a few dollars and ordering trailers with no or insufficient brakes on trailer is one of them.

When I was looking for pontoons, I saw many 21' pontoons on single axle trailers. All had brakes.

 

[HT32BSX115]

No proof that ahicks was breaking the law from his post. My 20' pontoon has no trailer brakes and it came from a large dealer in NC. In fact NONE of his pontoons with single axle trailers had brakes....so am I breaking the law?

I of course didn't imply that anyone was breaking the law........

Don't know if you're breaking the law either.
I would say it depends on the license plate on your trailer and the state your drivers license is issued in (assuming they're the same)

It doesn't matter if "no one" installs brakes on a trailer or not

If the gross weight of the trailer exceeds what ever the magic number is in your state, (and depending on the state, other "stuff) you have to have brakes on the trailer.

If you don't have brakes, no one is going to know unless the trailer gets inspected or you have an accident.

If someone is hurt or killed, you can bet the lawyer for the "hurt" person will be asking that question.

I know I would.

 

[bigdee]

Every towing situation is different. Trailer accidents in my area are rare. I feel much more unsafe seeing a new boat owner with the super big truck pulling a 6000 lb new toy (with brakes) down the highway at 70 mph. Yes i do recommend brakes for the unexperienced, high traffic areas,hills,etc. But to sit behind a keyboard and make judgments and classify everyone as not having common sense is wrong. I feel perfectly safe (in my situation) pulling without brakes until some smart "know it all" with his fancy new toy rides 2 feet from my tail.

 

[Lou C]

Well, yeah. I can tell you that if you hit someone, (with no trailer brakes) and the "Slip-And-Fall" lawyer for the person you hit finds out that you had no brakes on the trailer (AKA "Blood in The Water") you're likely going to be at fault (even if the guy pulled out in front of you)

Just saying......



I have an 87 21ft Four Winns (about 5000lbs ) + steel tandem axle trailer (1000+ lbs) that originally came with only the front axle "braked" using hydraulic drum and a surge coupler.

About 5 years ago, I welded brake backing plate brackets to the rear axle, removed the older surge system and front drum hyd brakes and installed 4 "regular" Dexter electric brakes after buying a 2005 F350 with the OEM TBC (Trailer Brake Controller)

Before, when using the surge system, the brakes were always very hot after going down a long hill and once in a while if I braked heavily, it would lock the front axle brakes on the trailer. And backing up a hill on gravel or dirt, the brakes would usually lock and skid the front axle wheels........

So far, for the last 5 years or so, the electric drum brakes work flawlessly and the FOMOCO TBC just works!

If I had it to do over again, I might probably do the MUCH MORE expensive stainless disc electric over hydraulic brakes because regular electric drums don't do all that well in salt water.

I don't boat in salt water and regular electric drum brakes are no worse than the older hydraulic drums anyway..... The magnets are completely epoxy sealed so water doesn't seem to hurt them

I would not use another surge system on any trailer, and any "new" boat I get in the future will either have electric (over hydraulic disc) brakes or I'll swap them out!

Cheers,

Rick

If you look around (I saw this on e-trailer) there are electric drum brakes that are galvanized. I have been using drum brakes here for years and have learned how to make them last in salt water. For example there is a new style wheel cylinder that uses an O-ring seal that does not trap water like the boot style. I figured out a way to keep water out of the boot style and they last me 4-6 seasons now. Also you can get zinc or galvanized drums that do not rust anywhere near as bad as plain painted cast iron. Both of these up-grades can be seen on pacific trailer's site.
Here in the salt I can tell you if you don't go full stainless disc brakes corrode and stick just like drums. They are just easier to service.
I would always install trailer brakes if the vehicle manufacturer recommends it over a certain weight. They know what the braking capacity of the vehicle is. The state standards are only general guidelines, they are not really able to cover every situation.
I can tell you that going from no brakes to even just a pair of 10" drum brakes when I used to tow with our '98 Jeep made a world of difference. It went from scary when stopping to stopping under control.
If I got a newer trailer for this boat (single axle) I'd just up grade to a 5200 lb axle, with a pair of 12" hydraulic drums, new style wheel cyls and rust-resistant drums. Good enough for what I do.....

 

[HT32BSX115]

I would always install trailer brakes if the vehicle manufacturer recommends it over a certain weight. They know what the braking capacity of the vehicle is. The state standards are only general guidelines, they are not really able to cover every situation.

Thanks for the above info Lou.


Back to the OP's original question, I'll reiterate that my original point here........... if you have a house and other assets, you place yourself at extreme liability not having any brakes at all if the boat and trailer weigh at or more than the (brakes required) limits in your state

Just imagine that kid on a bike rolling out in front of you on your way to the lake and you hit him/her. Or the little old lady in her 63 Rambler pulling out in front of you.

When the "Bloodsucking Slip&Fall" finds out you had no trailer brakes on your trailer and you knew it, It won't be pretty. (The Police report will indicate the length of the skid marks, the estimated speed and whether the trailer had brakes and if they were required.....and nowadays, they'll probably subpoena cell phone records to see if a text was received or transmitted. It's all about maximum cash!!! )

It sux, but it's the world we live in.....

 

[Lou C]

Totally agree Rick. Even if the state had no trailer brake laws, if GM, Ford or Chrysler says you are required to add brakes over a certain weight I'm sure a sharp lawyer could claim you were imprudent and negligent if an accident occurred and there were injuries and damages....

 

[HT32BSX115]

I'm sure a sharp lawyer could claim you were imprudent and negligent if an accident occurred and there were injuries and damages....

Well, yeah. And if someone (or their insurance company is perceived to have "deep pockets" or a million dollar liability blanket, it just causes the "dogs" to sniff further using everything at their disposal. It's just not worth it when a complete brake system could cost less than $500 or so.

I bought 4 new 3500lb Dexter 10" drums + 4 complete Nev-R-Just Brake assemblies for about $400 total (not counting the controller[built in to my truck] and not counting the Break-Away battery system which was something like $50)

 

[bigdee]

While I agree that brakes are better than no brakes I disagree with this lawyer nonsense. If your following the trailer law for that state you are inside of the law,period. A tractor trailer truck takes 100 yard to stop from 55mph, 100 feet further than a 4000lb pick-up. What a lawyer can get you on is following too close, driving too fast for conditions,reckless driving etc. My state law says no brakes required for under 3500#....lawyers cannot re-write laws to suit them. You have to adjust your driving to the load your pulling. In the eyes of the law that kid that runs out in front of you is no different than running out in front of a tractor trailer. I don't have brakes on any of my trailers but I also live in a rural area and I'm constantly aware of the load behind me. The guy in the dully pulling a 8000lb boat (with brakes) at 75mph is what scares the crap out of me.

 

[HT32BSX115]

While I agree that brakes are better than no brakes I disagree with this lawyer nonsense.

It's not "nonsense" when you have to hire one to defend yourself......and of course, I have only been referring to a trailer and load that exceeds the legal weight to require brakes.

Below that weight, one couldn't be accused of "breaking" that law.

 

[bruceb58]

My state law says no brakes required for under 3500#.

As long as your fully loaded trailers weigh less than that, you are fine.

Rural area or not doesn't matter.

 

[HT32BSX115]

In the eyes of the law that kid that runs out in front of you is no different than running out in front of a tractor trailer. I don't have brakes on any of my trailers but I also live in a rural area and I'm constantly aware of the load behind me.

Let also add that the "law" will probably put a trucker in jail if he hits that kid (that ran out in front if him) and they can prove that he KNEW that his trailer brakes were (illegally) either inop, not connected or not installed.

And if someone gets killed when hit by a vehicle pulling a trailer in a rural (or any) area with no trailer brakes (over the legal weight limit) you can bet the Lawyer for family of the "victim" will stop at nothing to get max compensation.

 

[bigdee]

Let also add that the "law" will probably put a trucker in jail if he hits that kid (that ran out in front if him) and they can prove that he KNEW that his trailer brakes were (illegally) either inop, not connected or not installed.

And if someone gets killed when hit by a vehicle pulling a trailer in a rural (or any) area with no trailer brakes (over the legal weight limit) you can bet the Lawyer for family of the "victim" will stop at nothing to get max compensation.

I agree BUT that is not what I said.......I thought I made it clear.

 

[Sea Rider]

Have had bad experience towing 400 kilo combo and trailer with a subcompact automobile. If a moron sudden stops at front of towing vehicle and you literally stepped on brake pedal to stop, although breaks will do it's job, tires won't, will slip on gravel and paved road locked while combo is pushed forward towards towing vehicle and at same time vehicle hitting whatever dared to be in front. That's why my combo and trailer now lives happily at a marina...

Anyone has had this type of bad experience not necessarily at high speed?

Happy Boating

 

[NYBo]

Anyone has had this type of bad experience not necessarily at high speed?

Happy Boating

Yep. I was towing my 14' fiberglass bass boat, maybe 1200 pounds total, with a '91 Subaru Loyale wagon. Going maybe 20 MPH up to an intersection and someone decides she needs to make a left directly in front of me. Barely stopped in time. Scared me half to death.