Planning stringers/floor/engine mounts/transom....

greenz

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The victim of my madness is a 1985 Imperial 190V w/ a 190MR Mercruiser/alpha1 combo. The rain here in sw Ohio FINALLY stopped for a day and my new cover showed up, so i finally got the chance to take some pictures..
 

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greenz

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Re: Planning stringers/floor/engine mounts/transom....

so my questions are
1. What is that yellow shading? The squarish one on the side of the hull i believe was a patch? Down on the keel, from the tip of the v where the runners (?) are was not yellow before i put it in storage last fall, where did that come from?
2. Is it possible to remove the motor from this boat without pulling the cap? I know the cap is covering about the last one and a half cylinders, i know i can unhook everything, but the physical lifting is my question, not being able to directly chain the back of the motor.
3. yes i'm guilty of laminating the new floor, over the old rotten floor and stringers, and i did know they were bad, b/c i started pulling the old floor up and saw the damage! I was 19 and freaked. Now i know i am more than capable of doing this, but how does everyone attach the floor to the stringers without putting screws/poking holes through the surface? Every rebuild i read, i read about people not wanting to put any screw or anything into the deck after glassing it.
4. one picture shows some hairline cracks, these are on the drivers side (forgive me for not remembering starboard/port) only, on top of the cap. they don't go bow-aft, they cross over the cap, for about 4-5 ft. Are these of any concern?

My goal with this boat is to make it safe and reliable again, it doesn't have to be a beauty queen, but i don't want to run it until the damage is too far gone to be able to sell it in the future. Lets face it, not every person in the market for a starter boat is looking to make these repairs, let alone someone who is willing, would pay any reasonable money. ;) We've had this boat in the family since 1994, and for a long time, before my mechanical skills showed up around the time i was 14, It sat for a few years, with a junk cover, b/c the engine became unreliable. It runs like a champ now with a few upgrades, but the structure sucks! Thanks for the help!
 

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greenz

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Re: Planning stringers/floor/engine mounts/transom....

what are the rules for bumping? i don't want this gettin lost in the archives!
 

ondarvr

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Re: Planning stringers/floor/engine mounts/transom....

Those yellow areas on the hull are repairs that were re-sprayed. If they weren't visible before but are now, it means the person probably thinned the gel coat, most likely with styrene (could be Duratec though), this is very common and is one reason I warn people about thinning their gel coat.

Cracks on the top edge like that aren?t uncommon, they are typically from thick gel coat, they need to be ground out completely and then filled, possibly with glass to help keep them from coming back.
 

greenz

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Re: Planning stringers/floor/engine mounts/transom....

Thanks for the reply! It sounds like neither of those are serious structure problems. More or less eyesores. I'm still searching for the other two answers though, is it possible to remove this engine without pulling the cap? Been brainstorming trying to find a solution to get it out. And how does one typically attach the decking to the stringers? PL? Another question is how do you reattach the cap if it needs to be removed? glass it from the inside? How does one go about building a engine mount to be strong enough to hold a motor? I can build a racecar from the ground up, rebuild any trans or engine, but this will be the first project of its type.

I've been watching all the vids and posts from Jay, and others and have learned a ton! These are just details i'd like to know before getting into this. I'm tight on cash, (aren't we all) and really need to have this well planned out before starting so it doesn't end up a project that doesn't get finished. Thanks for any help.
 

ondarvr

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Re: Planning stringers/floor/engine mounts/transom....

Frequently the on new boats the floor isn't attached to the stringers, if you want to do it there are a couple of ways to do it. Use something like 3M5200 and then screw it down, or use 5200 and just weight down the floor while it cures.
 

greenz

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Re: Planning stringers/floor/engine mounts/transom....

so the new boats don't even have the deck mechanically/chemically bonded to the stringers? figure that would lose structural integrity, unless it's just built into the rest of the hull. Thanks for the reply again ondarvr.

still looking for opinions on if the motor can be removed without pulling the cap or not. I have a feeling there will be a large material cost difference between pulling the cap and not. Thanks again for any help!
 

ondarvr

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Re: Planning stringers/floor/engine mounts/transom....

still looking for opinions on if the motor can be removed without pulling the cap or not. I have a feeling there will be a large material cost difference between pulling the cap and not. Thanks again for any help!

Unless someone has the exact same boat and has pulled the engine out they won't be able to tell you. So you're sort of on your own on that part.
 

greenz

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Re: Planning stringers/floor/engine mounts/transom....

i understand this, opinions don't hurt either. my particular boat isn't the only one i have ever seen with the motor half covered, and my experience checking out other boats is next to none. This forum moves fast, and this post gets lost quick. In my financial situation, having a good well thought out plan of attack is going to be best for me, the most major complication and deciding factor on this project is if i have to pull the cap or not. So I'm hoping other people will also look at my post. Thanks again Ondarvr.
 

petermarcus

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Re: Planning stringers/floor/engine mounts/transom....

It looks tight back there, but you might be able to pull it without popping the cap. Try a dry run -- get a chain as good and low over the top of the engine as you can and clamp it tightly as low as you can. Raise the front of your trailer as much as you can so the stern is a lot lower than the bow. You can pull the engine out at an angle and it might not rub the cap (or at least not much).

Of course, with all that deck and stringer rot, it's possible the transom is bad, and if that's the case you're more than likely to be taking off the cap to fix that anyway...
 

greenz

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Re: Planning stringers/floor/engine mounts/transom....

Thanks Peter, actually vacationed once in melbourne! Nice place! The main worry is the transom and motor mount are rotten, i know that for sure. Looking up under the cap, the transom should be fairly easy to replace with the cap on, might not be the most comfortable place to do it, but i believe i can do that. I'm not planning on doing it with anymore planning than the factory did on it, other than at the bottom like friscoboater did on his searay.

I know i didn't include pictures of the lower part of the motor, but i'm starting to believe that i can take the balancer off, as the oil pan is tapered towards the back, and the heat exchanger can be removed, allowing me to pull the motor a bit forward, before tilting the front upwards to pull it up out of the bilge. removing the heat exchanger will allow for twisting the motor (clock or counterclockwise looking from the top) to hopefully allow for more room. I've been brainstorming for a week or two, but it always helps using other ideas to come up with one that works. Thanks for the reply!
 

Fisherball

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Re: Planning stringers/floor/engine mounts/transom....

The other very important variable is if you put it back in with the cap on. It may come out but be impossible to exert the same force in reverse to go back onto the mounts. You'd be a bent dude if it won't go in with the cap in the way.
 

greenz

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Re: Planning stringers/floor/engine mounts/transom....

true, the front motor mount will have to be removed to get the motor out or in, it'll have to be bolted in once the motor is in position, the front of the motor actually hangs from it. It's still raining here north of cincinnati, and i haven't had the chance to get to it b/c of it, I'm unsure of how the motor mounts in the back. I don't recall seeing the same type of mount in the back.

Now, i'm 95% positive i'm going to use 1708 on the transom, seems to be the best compromise in strength and workability, unless someone has another idea. I'd like to keep it simple and use it for everything, but it's not in the budget. I have honestly been researching for the last several weeks before asking questions, but i cannot keep fiberglass mat types straight! What would do the job of wrapping the stringers and deck, but be more affordable than 1708? or is there a such thing. still learning..... thanks guys.
 

ondarvr

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Re: Planning stringers/floor/engine mounts/transom....

Standard 24 oz roving is the most affordable type of glass and is what 99.99% of all boats were built from until about the last 10 years or so.
 

greenz

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Re: Planning stringers/floor/engine mounts/transom....

thank you ondarvr. is there another name woven roving may be under? i'm searching uscomposites.com, and they're not listing it as that. i do know what it is thanks to this forum though! Thanks!
 

MountaineerMiner

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Re: Planning stringers/floor/engine mounts/transom....

I would say give it the old college try on removing the engine. I have pulled an inline 6 and tranny from a Toyota by simply standing on the bell housing while someone else pumped the engine hoist. Possibly this method (although not the safest) might help.

If I were you I would avoid pulling the cap. I know it is popular on this forum, but it is a real bit** to get back on.

Like ondarvr stated, woven roving WAS the standard for many years. My father has rebuilt many boat using woven roving with great success, but even better than roven roveing is biax...1708 or 1208 are the flavors of choice.
 

greenz

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Re: Planning stringers/floor/engine mounts/transom....

yea, thats going to be my go/no go on this project. I don't have the room nor do i want to take the chance in ruining the boat completely by removing the cap.

I know what you mean on pulling the motors. I'm just gonna have to stop being a sissy. I used to be able to pull motors out of camaros/firebirds in about 2 hours out the top when i had my shop. Corvettes took about 3 hours, but they had to have the body lifted off the running gear ;) If the wife would let me have some free time, i'd of started this project by now, lol.
 

greenz

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Re: Planning stringers/floor/engine mounts/transom....

thanks guys, apparently things are best hidden right infront of me. I definitely like the price on roving alot better than 1708! Looks like i'll probably start tearing into this project after my canada trip early June... I'll definitely get more pictures up once i start. Thanks!
 
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