Penta 4.3 GL in saltwater?

[fxSol]

Greetings,
For the past decades I have been a "crab" walking on solid earth. Recently bought a boat and have no clue about boating and will need to read everything there is about it =) So be kind to me if asking foolish odd questions. Now the boat I bought have a Volvo Penta V6 4.3 GL engine and a Penta A280 or A290 outdrive. I am planning to drive/sail the boat in saltwater and my question is if I need to saltwater convert it somehow? Is the cooling water pumped in from the outdrive? Can I after each drive connect a hose to freshwater and run the engine clean each time or is it better to have a closed freshwater cooling system?

Cheers to all!

 

[Buster53]

First of all, you may have closed cooling. Do you know how to tell the difference?
As far as flushing, go to any boat supply store, even Walmart, and buy a pair of “earmuffs”. You put them on the outdrive, connect them to a water hose, turn on the water and then turn on the engine. Run the engine for at least a couple of minutes, done.
You need to flush whether you have closed cooling or not.

 

[fxSol]

Brother Buster, I have NO clue how to tell the difference. Ideas where to look?

I will go today to the boat and take some measurements and will try to inspect the engine and learn what each part does and where all the hoses go =)
If boat is in water how on earth to flush it then and how many liters does it need for a normal flush? Read somewhere that SALT X can be a good idea to use if using sea water as cooling.

Cheers
P.S
Thanks for replying

 

[Buster53]

I could tell you what to look for, but it's easier to google Fresh Water Cooling (FWC) vs Raw Water Cooling (RWC). There are websites that have diagrams showing the 2. Probably dozens of YouTube videos as well.
Main thing to look for is a steel cylinder (heat exchanger) sitting on top of the engine...probably 12-16" inches long and 4-6" in diameter. It serves the same purpose of a radiator, but instead of air cooling, it has raw (sea) water running thru it.

 

[Buster53]

Sounds like you are a complete newbie. That being said, you need to take a boater safety class. Your state may require it and probably your insurance company as well. You can take these classes online, but I strongly suggest googling the US Power Squadron and/or the Coast Guard Aux. Both offer safety classes and a real class is way better than online. After taking the safety class, take the Seamanship class that both organizations offer. Well worth the time and effort.

 

[Buster53]

Brother Buster, I have NO clue how to tell the difference. Ideas where to look?

I will go today to the boat and take some measurements and will try to inspect the engine and learn what each part does and where all the hoses go =)
If boat is in water how on earth to flush it then and how many liters does it need for a normal flush? Read somewhere that SALT X can be a good idea to use if using sea water as cooling.

Cheers
P.S
Thanks for replying

Yes, Salt X is worth looking at. Flushing with the boat in the water is challenging...all depends on the boat. Are you planning on leaving the boat in the water all the time? How often will you put the boat on a trailer?

 

[fxSol]

Yes, Salt X is worth looking at. Flushing with the boat in the water is challenging...all depends on the boat. Are you planning on leaving the boat in the water all the time? How often will you put the boat on a trailer?

Will be in the water for 3 months per year going off-shore every day to begin with. After that period it will be on land. Maybe 3 months won't do that much of corrosion?

 

[fxSol]

Sounds like you are a complete newbie. That being said, you need to take a boater safety class. Your state may require it and probably your insurance company as well. You can take these classes online, but I strongly suggest googling the US Power Squadron and/or the Coast Guard Aux. Both offer safety classes and a real class is way better than online. After taking the safety class, take the Seamanship class that both organizations offer. Well worth the time and effort.

Have ordered books and will take classes and tests to get certificate to become Popeye the Skipper. There is A LOT to take in. I know my cars but boats is a different story =)

Currently working on programming a micro controller to be able to use a bow tunnel thruster which I will install very soon. Later on I will add solarpanels and electric engines to be used as slow cruising and trolling powered by 48volt 300A batterypack. And if time permits I will try to make spot-lock feature like a digital anchor...Wish I could find that pause button to stop TIME. So much to do and learn but little time.

 

[fxSol]

I could tell you what to look for, but it's easier to google Fresh Water Cooling (FWC) vs Raw Water Cooling (RWC). There are websites that have diagrams showing the 2. Probably dozens of YouTube videos as well.
Main thing to look for is a steel cylinder (heat exchanger) sitting on top of the engine...probably 12-16" inches long and 4-6" in diameter. It serves the same purpose of a radiator, but instead of air cooling, it has raw (sea) water running thru it.

Found this -

And I can say at once that I don't have it, or at least on the same spot =)
Will check later today to see if I can find it but tucked in somewhere else.
Its a massive engine btw. Looks smaller on videos and on pictures. But in real life its huge =)

 

[tpenfield]

Post some pictures of your engine to help with ID of the cooling system that you have.

I boat in salt water, it is wicked fun, and I have closed cooling. Without closed cooling your engine will last about 15, but will need exhaust manifold replacements sooner.

You also have to be on your game about corrosion protection of the outdrive and anti-fouling protection of the hull, etc.

 

[Scott Danforth]

if you have a GL, you should not have an AQ280 or AQ290 drive unless your motor was swapped. the AQ series drives would have come with an AQ205 motor

definitely post pictures

what maintenance have you done with the new to you old boat that the prior owner neglected?

regardless of drive, you should pull the drive, and inspect the u-joints and bellows. I would plan on a bellows replacement. you will also need to service the drive gear lube.

if you have an AQ drive, you do not have to worry about engine alignment as there is no gimbal bearing. however you do have to grease the PDS bearings.

I would replace the raw water impeller and do an oil change.

 

[Lou C]

If you wanted to add closed cooling you would have to assess the internal condition of the engine by removing the thermostat housing & front circulation pump so you can see what the cooling passages look like. If you see light surface rust, ok, but if you see flaking cast iron, I would not add closed cooling, because it will clog the heat exchanger. Raw water cooling in salt water you can get approx 15 years before the cyl heads will be deteriorated enough to start leaks into the cyls & motor oil. At that point the block is probably still good so if you replace the heads you can get 5-10 more years out of it. My recommendation would be to do an oil analysis at the end of each season, if you start to see sodium (from salt water cooling) in the motor oil (and this can start to happen and it won't turn the oil milky right away), then it's time to do a compression test and most likely remove the cyl heads. If the cooling passages are getting eroded by salt water cooling then it's best to get a set of reman heads and carefully check the sealing surface of the block deck area and the intake manifold. If they are in good shape install your reman heads with a set of Fel/Pro head gaskets and new cyl head bolts. In my experience the blocks don't rust through nearly as soon as the heads. Also, there is much debate on this but filling the engine with a good PG antifreeze in the off season instead of leaving it dry might reduce corrosion as well, at least that's what Mercury says and requires at this point.

On my engine I would up replacing the heads after about 15 years or so due to an overheat which caused leaking head gaskets but sodium showed up in the motor oil 2 seasons before that. Knowing what I know now I'd look into that as soon as it becomes apparent. Here's Blackstone oil reports on my old engine, the overheat happened in 2013, but sodium was present in 2011 two years before that.
After the new head gaskets and reman heads much better, iron is still a bit high though.

 

[Buster53]

Found this -

And I can say at once that I don't have it, or at least on the same spot =)
Will check later today to see if I can find it but tucked in somewhere else.
Its a massive engine btw. Looks smaller on videos and on pictures. But in real life its huge =)

Chances are very slim the heat exchanger is tucked away somewhere…almost always sitting on top of the engine.
As far as flushing goes, when the boat is used pretty much daily, flushing is not nearly as important as when the boat is used sporadically. Salt water just sitting there for weeks at a time is the big problem. Just give it a good flush every time you pull the boat.
FYI, the 4.3 is the 6 cylinder version of the 5.7 small block V-8. If you want to see big, you should see the twin 8.1 big block V-8’s I have in my boat

 

[Lou C]

Some Volvos have the heat exchanger mounted horizontally some have it mounted vertically on the starboard side.
The 4.3 is quite compact shorter than a 4 cyl or V8 but as wide as a V8. They are pretty durable the main things to watch are leaks from the intake gaskets (Vortec) and exhaust manifolds/elbow joints.

 

[QBhoy]

Hi. There are plenty of raw water cooled GM engines just like this, still surviving after 30 and 40 years in the salt. All about taking care of them when they come out the water. Any corrosion suffered internally, is without doubt as a result of sitting over winter empty of any fluid medium or any other sustained period left in a similar condition. Whilst they are in the water and full of water (even salt water), there is next to no corrosion suffering to the internals.
The exhaust manifolds and risers are the only thing to worry about. These are consumable parts in the salt.

 

[Donald0039]

At the very least you need to pull the exhaust manifold and riser and evaluate. The riser is always raw water cooled. The manifold could be part of closed cooling system.

Hopefully you don't have a catalytic converter engine. The exhaust is only available from Volvo Penta if a catalytic converter engine.

Change all the anode to be salt water anodes if they are now.

Replace the raw water impeller.

Check for water and then replace the gear oil.

 

[fxSol]

if you have a GL, you should not have an AQ280 or AQ290 drive unless your motor was swapped. the AQ series drives would have come with an AQ205 motor

definitely post pictures

what maintenance have you done with the new to you old boat that the prior owner neglected?

regardless of drive, you should pull the drive, and inspect the u-joints and bellows. I would plan on a bellows replacement. you will also need to service the drive gear lube.

if you have an AQ drive, you do not have to worry about engine alignment as there is no gimbal bearing. however you do have to grease the PDS bearings.

I would replace the raw water impeller and do an oil change.

Sorry m8 for my late reply. Have been a very busy bee on all fronts so please apologies. Indeed its a 280 with duo prop and my guess is that there was an engine swap. To be honest I have just now started to do some troubleshooting and trying to get things running. I have not even tried to see if the flywheel turns....
Today I found out that the starter motor was broken so I need to order a new one. I have no information of the boat, motor and stern drive from the previous owner. So its kind of a detective work. All cables will be ripped out and rewired. And to make matters worse, this is my first boat so its much learn by doing and watching youtube videos =)

If the engine cranks, and fires up properly I will then move on to the stern drive replacing bellow and grease it up.

I do not even know if the motor had been properly winterized, maybe there is headache coming ahead =( Who knows =)
I did however open up the bottom plugs (near the oilfilter) and the other one on the opposite side. Little water came out, black not oily and some kind of "black stones". Volume wise it was maybe 2-3 dl water.
Also I opened up the hose for the water pump and the rear plugs of the side "things" on the left and right side of the engine where the exhaust exits?
Maybe 3-4 tablespoons of water came out and once again black bits...
So I am guessing wild that the engine was emptied of water and have been on land for a while...I could be wrong in my judgment though...

Now when I swap the starter motor, I need to change the oil also - but since I lack usersmanual or handbook I have NO clue what type of oil to use. Can I use ordinary car engine oil or are there any additives in boat oil specially made for marine engines?
Mineral oil or Synthetic? Viscosity ?

 

[fxSol]

At the very least you need to pull the exhaust manifold and riser and evaluate. The riser is always raw water cooled. The manifold could be part of closed cooling system.

Hopefully you don't have a catalytic converter engine. The exhaust is only available from Volvo Penta if a catalytic converter engine.

Change all the anode to be salt water anodes if they are now.

Replace the raw water impeller.

Check for water and then replace the gear oil.

Anodes? New terminology but I will check it up. What to look for in the exhaust manifold? And riser I have never heard of =( Where and what is it?

 

[Donald0039]

Use 15W40 oil. Shell Rotella T is a favorite of many. No need for synthetic as most people put on less than 50 hours a summer.

Riser is also called exhaust elbow. You want the exhaust to leave the engine area pretty high up with respect to the bottom of the boat. So an exhaust elbow or riser to get it up high.

You can get exhaust parts from Sierra. No need for Volvo Penta OEM unless they are very new with catalytic converter.

The exhaust manifold and riser are water cooled. So a water jacket. If things rust to the point where there is a leak between water jacket and exhaust then water can get in the engine and damage it. You avoid that by pulling the exhaust off every few years and inspecting. More often in salt than fresh.

If you have a heat exchanger then it's a FWC engine. So some answers may change. But it does not sound like it.

One of the reasons to pull the outdrive is to just get it off. You make sure it will come off nice and easy the next time. Not stuck on and a bear to get off.

 

[fxSol]

Use 15W40 oil. Shell Rotella T is a favorite of many. No need for synthetic as most people put on less than 50 hours a summer.

Riser is also called exhaust elbow. You want the exhaust to leave the engine area pretty high up with respect to the bottom of the boat. So an exhaust elbow or riser to get it up high.

You can get exhaust parts from Sierra. No need for Volvo Penta OEM unless they are very new with catalytic converter.

The exhaust manifold and riser are water cooled. So a water jacket. If things rust to the point where there is a leak between water jacket and exhaust then water can get in the engine and damage it. You avoid that by pulling the exhaust off every few years and inspecting. More often in salt than fresh.

If you have a heat exchanger then it's a FWC engine. So some answers may change. But it does not sound like it.

One of the reasons to pull the outdrive is to just get it off. You make sure it will come off nice and easy the next time. Not stuck on and a bear to get off.

Donald I cant express how grateful I am for every reply. And thank you for spreading knowledge and your time to help those in need =) Any idea by chance of a good starter motor? Can you use a GM starter motor? I guess the brackets look different though...
Will go and check for the oil right away. If my memory is not weak I recon its somewhere around 4.2 liters that goes into the motor?
And as a side note - I was looking for the drain plug for the oil...could not find it and then found on the internet that you acutally have to pump in and out? =)