Outdrive is slowly creeping up - why?

Natesms

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Sep 8, 2012
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464
I went to check on the boat for the first time in a month and the outdrive is slowly creeping up. I had suspected this on my last visit so I took note and the skeg is almost 2 inches higher this round. What causes this?
 

Bondo

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Apr 17, 2002
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Ayuh,... What outdrive,..??

What Vintage outdrive,..??
 

Natesms

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Sep 8, 2012
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464
Sorry for the lack of info. It's a 1992 Merc Alpha 1. It's on the trailer out of the water, no battery in it for the winter. I didn't see any type of leakage around the trim pump or rams.
 

Starcraft5834

Lieutenant Commander
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Jun 2, 2013
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the only logical conclusion I can draw is.. you got some air in the rams, if boat is tipped up a bit..(most are when stored) gravity pressure could cause that...that's all I got., lots smarter folk in here than me.........
 

GA_Boater

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Sorry, Nate. You thread got misplaced by accident. :mad: It should be OK now. GA_B.
 

UncleWillie

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Oct 18, 2011
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You are not alone.
My 2012 Alpha G2 drive has a similar issue. (20 Years newer.)
The Drive is removed for the winter.
The Left/Port Cylinder slowly extends itself over the course of a few weeks.
Since October it has extended 5 inches. (Not a recent picture.)
TrimCyl1.jpg
What makes even less sense....
If I reinstall the battery and then extend the cylinders a few inches, both cylinders extend as expected.
If I then retract the cylinders, when the Starboard cylinder bottoms out, the Port cylinder stops retracting. ???
This makes no sense as they are fed from a common manifold!

If I then extend the cylinders, when the longer Port cylinder reaches maximum extension, the shorter starboard cylinder continues to extend at double the normal speed, as expected. Both cylinders are then at equal, full extension.
Retracting the cylinders will cause both cylinders to retract fully, as expected.
I have retracted both cylinders fully and continued operating the trim pump to purge any suspected air in the cylinder to circulate past the cylinders overpressure valve with no effect.
In any event, I would expect an air bubble to expand and contract with temperature changes, causing the the cylinder to `Breath' slightly, not continuously extend.
And there is not a drop of leakage or seepage anywhere.
I have never noticed the cylinders extending while the drive was installed. I will have to look closer this summer.

My single cylinder extends about an inch a month.
Are you getting 2 inches a month from both cylinders?
 

Natesms

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Sep 8, 2012
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I would say about an inch or two a month on mine. Glad to know I'm not alone. It doesn't seem to have any negative effects while I'm using the boat, I'm just curious to why it's happening.
 

UncleWillie

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Oct 18, 2011
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The only way I can see this happening is if the spools in the hydraulic pump are bypassing some fluid.
The only pressure would be from gravity and the pump is less than 2 feet above the cylinders.
That means the pressure would be less than 1psi.
I would be surprised if 1 psi could even push the pistons with just the drag of the seals.
Like you say, it does not cause any issues during a day on the water where the trim is moved at least once an hour.
It is a mystery.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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May 19, 2004
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27,468
Easily explained....

If you have a hydraulic cylinder connected to the same pressure both sides (and in this case that pressure can be a very tiny residual amount in the pump valves, or even if the pump is mounted quite high above the rams) then the cylinder will extend.

The math on it goes like this....

The force on a piston is the area times the pressure. So, on the UP side you have a flat piston. It gets full force on that side. But the DOWN side has a rod sticking out of the piston, the surface area is less, so if the same pressure is on this side, then less force is applied. You have one side (the UP side) with a force on it and you have the DOWN side with less force on it. If the difference is enough to overcome the friction of the piston and rod 'o' rings and seals, the ram will extend.....

Why it doesn't do it with the drive on... Too much weight for the small differential force to overcome. And why it doesn't leak DOWN with the drive weight? Valves in the pump.

HTH,

Chris.........
 

Natesms

Chief Petty Officer
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Sep 8, 2012
Messages
464
Easily explained....

If you have a hydraulic cylinder connected to the same pressure both sides (and in this case that pressure can be a very tiny residual amount in the pump valves, or even if the pump is mounted quite high above the rams) then the cylinder will extend.

The math on it goes like this....

The force on a piston is the area times the pressure. So, on the UP side you have a flat piston. It gets full force on that side. But the DOWN side has a rod sticking out of the piston, the surface area is less, so if the same pressure is on this side, then less force is applied. You have one side (the UP side) with a force on it and you have the DOWN side with less force on it. If the difference is enough to overcome the friction of the piston and rod 'o' rings and seals, the ram will extend.....

Why it doesn't do it with the drive on... Too much weight for the small differential force to overcome. And why it doesn't leak DOWN with the drive weight? Valves in the pump.

HTH,

Chris.........

This is one the best explanation I've received on this forum. Thanks! I have the drive on mine, but it still explains it as mine just moves slower. So if there is even the smallest amount of leak around one of the rams it could also cause this as the pressure is just slightly less.
 
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UncleWillie

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Oct 18, 2011
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3,995
Chris,
I agree with your explanation.
I just find it hard to believe that 1psi can push his installed drive Up. The piston is barely 1 Sq.In.
It would also require both the UP and DOWN valves in the the pump to be leaking.
Any oil leaking into the Up side, has to push the oil out of the Down side, for the piston to move.
If I hadn't seen it happen I would say it was not possible. But, I can't deny it happens.

Re Read my symptom in Post #7.
Why the Port cylinder will not retract under pump power until it has been fully extended defies explanation. ???
 
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