? on selecting new hydraulic lifters

[Chris611]

Re: ? on selecting new hydraulic lifters

Thanks for all the replies. It was asked what intake and carb etc..I used a Edelbrock Marine 4 bbl Carb #1409 and an Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake Manifold. It seems like alot of people are focusing on the fuel delivery system. I am searching for knowledge, not challanging anyone, but can someone help me understand how a problem in the fuel deliver system would cause the clanking and rattling in the engine. I understand it would cause the loss of power, but I don't understand how it would cause the noises? <br /><br />Thanks<br />CP

 

[rayjay]

Re: ? on selecting new hydraulic lifters

Lean condition causing detonation. A highly loaded motor [ as in - marine use ] makes a hell of a bad sound when detonating. It won't be the 'ping ping' that a car motor makes.<br /><br />Was there a lot of sludge in the lifter gallery when you had the intake off?<br /><br />A lifter pumping up is going to give you a dead miss on that cyl. If it is on the intake side you will have backfiring through the carb.<br /><br />What kind of ignition do you have?

 

[Don S]

Re: ? on selecting new hydraulic lifters

Fuel problems won't cause the "clanking and rattling" of the engine as you now describe it. Earlier it was "chattering" and on your first post it was only "more hollow and louder" sound. <br />You may possibly have a problem with valves sticking or timing being out and it's pinging. You may also have the water shutters in the exhaust Y that have the rubber edges missing and when the engine starts misfiring a little it bangs them back and forth and can make a clattering sound. Normally it's heard at idle speeds.<br />Since it's a 96, you may very well have risers, manifolds or the gasket between them leaking and allowing a little water in the cylinders also making the valves a little rusty and (STICKY). <br /> <br />

I am making a list for when I get the boat out of storage...the time is getting near...although its snowing today.

Eventually, people replying to this post will have mentioned about every part on the boat.<br />What you need to do is actually get a manual and go to your boat and do some testing and checking.

 

[Buttanic]

Re: ? on selecting new hydraulic lifters

To Kagee, putting new flat tappet lifters without putting in a new cam will eventually cause premature lifter or cam lobe ware. It is not a question of will it but when. I have seen it happen more than once. Roller lifter do not have this problem and can be changed.

 

[Chris611]

Re: ? on selecting new hydraulic lifters

There didn't appear to be any sludge in the galley when I took it apart. It all looked pretty good, althought I haven't been inside of that many engines. As far as ignition, I'm not sure how to answer that question. I didn't think it has points etc. I has a coil on the back left side of the engine, and if I remember right it has what looks like the HEI on top of the intake like my '93 Yukon had. Don't know if that answeres the question. <br /><br />I will try to better describe the noise and the situation that causes it:<br /><br />When it first happened. We were running back to the dock. I hit WOT for a 1 minute or so and I was watching the speed and tack trying to dial in the trim. I had it set properly and ran for 30 sec or so. I then noticed that the tack began to drop. I watched it for 10 sec or so and it was just slowly dropping. Probably when I got to 4000 RPM, the engine started getting louder. Everyone in the boat heard it, we all just looked at each other. The "louder" noise was not metal on metal, but a hollow noise, kind of like when you run out of gas on a 4 wheeler only louder. As I pulled the throttle back to idle, we could then hear the clattering or clicking that the eninge was making. I left the boat idling and opened the engine hatch. We could all still hear the noise. It was definitily on the right side of the engine. Sounded like when I forgot to fully tighten a rocker arm on my TA. If I shut the boat off for a minute or so, I can refire and the noise is gone, boat works good, good power, etc. If I refire immediatly, the noise is still there. I don't know if this explination will help. Hopefully it does.<br /><br />The engine temp has never go high and the oil pressure seems to stay steady even when the problem happens. Oil pressuer goes down at idle, but so has every GM engine I have ever owned.<br /><br />Thanks for everyone hanging in there and helping out. I do appreciated it. Sorry if I didn't adequeatly post the problem originally. I find that long posts tend to get ignored becaue they are too long to read. So I was trying to condense the orginal post, and I guess I would have been better off to start with a long one.<br /><br />Thanks<br />CP

 

[rayjay]

Re: ? on selecting new hydraulic lifters

Isn't it a sickening feeling when your motor goes from running fine to suddenly making bad internal noises ? <br /><br />You could easily have valve train problems. Take off the valve covers and check for broken valve springs or dampers. Take the oil filter off and cut off the outer can with some tin snips and look at the element for bad news. An old trick is to use a long screwdriver like a stethescope to pinpoint where the noise is coming from.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: ? on selecting new hydraulic lifters

Very interesting all the information that pops up in a thread like this.<br /><br /> FIRST <br />Problem only happens when the engine is run WOT for a period of time.<br /><br /> Second <br /><br />It takes a bit for the noises to start, (rules out detonation).<br /><br /> Third <br /><br />No change in temp or oil preasure.<br /><br />With all of this, I have to put fault on a week lifter or two, or they are just a little out of adjustment.<br /><br />or the oil is being beaten to a froth and there is air being fed to the lifters. This can be a problem if the oil level is too high or even with the angle of the boat with all the oil being pushed to the back and making contact with the crank.<br /><br />Adjust the valves, first, then if it still does it, try running the engine one quart low, it wont hurt anything.<br /><br /> Now to despell miss information <br /><br />You "can" replace lifters on an old cam, but not a new cam with old lifters. If there is a failure putting new lifters on an old cam, the cam was flat allready. Lifters take on a "cupped" wear pattern and the lobe of a used cam will be rounded some, so if you put a new cam in and try and use old lifters, the cupped lifter will just ride on the edges of the wear pattern, but with new lifters on an old cam, the new lifter will be fine because it will eventually take on the wear pattern of the cam. Allways soak the new lifters in oil overnight before installing them and make sure you put assembly lube on them when you put them in.<br /><br />Hope this helps.

 

[Buttanic]

Re: ? on selecting new hydraulic lifters

New lifters on a used cam is the least likely to cause problems but they is no garantee a failure will not happen. I built an engine for a friend and he had bought a cam and lifters from a coworker that had run the cam and lifters about two hours when he decided he wanted another cam. Unfortunatly he did not mark what lifter was on what lobe. I told my friend that his best chance was to put new lifters on the cam, which we did however about 10,000 miles later one lifter was half worn away and several others were on the way to failure. To anyone who puts new lifters on a used cam no matter how good the cam looks, good luck, because if it doesn't eventually fail it was luck.

 

[TwoBallScrewBall]

Re: ? on selecting new hydraulic lifters

Just a thought here...<br /><br />On my 3.0, I had the same exact thing happen, engine would start to detonate after a minute or two at WOT. <br /><br />Timing was out a couple degrees. Double check your timing and advance curve. Fixed it for me.

 

[trog100]

Re: ? on selecting new hydraulic lifters

lifters wear concave cos they spin around during use.. the centre of the lifter gets wiped every time by the cam the outside dosnt.. the lifters going concave then causes the corners to come off the cam.. old concave lifters on a new cam will rapidly take off the corners and the cam wont live long..<br /><br />basiclly if a lifter is worn so will the cam be.. fitting old against new aint good practise whatever way u do it.. <br /><br />once filled and set i dont think good lifters empty either.. only faulty ones..<br /><br />in fact i remember GM manuals telling u to put old already primed lifters in a vice to sqeeze oil out before refitting them..and u really did have to apply some force to do this.. far more than tbey would ever get during normal use.. if u didnt do this the engine would likely have valves that didnt close properly when u first tried to fire it up after reassembly..<br /><br />i dont think good lifters need constant repriming during engine running.. once primed and set they are supposed to stay that way.. if they dont they need replacing.. valve clatter when u first fire an engine up after its been stood overnight is the first and most common sign of lifters going.. the ones left under valve spring pressure when the engine is stood empty partially over time and need repriming every time the engine starts up before the valve clatter goes away..<br /><br />i still dont think this one is lifters but aint gonna hazard a guess at what else it can be..<br /><br />the sparkplug reading thing is the best probably the best approach.. it must be done during the problem tbow.. make the engine do its thing.. shut it down staight away pull the plugs and inspect each one..<br /><br />trog100

 

[Flukinicehole]

Re: ? on selecting new hydraulic lifters

You are on the right track you have bad lifters.If you want to fix it right you should replace cam and lifters.If your cam is not worn and your lifters are just week you might get away with just lifters.I have to warn you that that clacking you are hearing is play between your cam,lifter,push rod and rocker arm.This can ruin a cam real quick. If it were me I would replace both but thats me I do all my own work.If I had to pay someone? It would depend upon my bank account that month. If you take it to a mechanic make sure you get a good one. Ask around I hate to see people get ripped off. A lot of people can talk the talk,only half of them can use a wrench.Good Luck,Jonny