Old problem 2007 497 HO Mag Limp mode

QBhoy

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I have been emailing Whipple about the issue also since they tested the ECM. I get a response of "We must have tested" and "Maybe" for a response. These are not real confidence booster words. Did they actually spend anytime with it? Or just a quick test on their computer and it's good to go? I assumed they would do a thorough job. Guess not, basically I have no more confidence the ECM might be bad than I did before sending it in.

Mmm. Not sure but I wouldn’t be suspecting that without going to the known common causes first. Can you not get it plugged in to a rinda ?

Im almost positive it will be one of the known usual suspects. TPS SW pressure switch etc.
 

nasdaqsam

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Mmm. Not sure but I wouldn’t be suspecting that without going to the known common causes first. Can you not get it plugged in to a rinda ?

Im almost positive it will be one of the known usual suspects. TPS SW pressure switch etc.

What is a rinda? We did take it to an authorized Mercruiser dealer last fall they used their equipment on it and contacted Mercruiser assist. After an hour they determined it was a bad ecm but were not able to give much more than a 50/50 chance that was it. While the boat was in storage I sent the ecm out to be tested figuring for a small fee I would know for sure. So much for that thought.
 

QBhoy

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What is a rinda? We did take it to an authorized Mercruiser dealer last fall they used their equipment on it and contacted Mercruiser assist. After an hour they determined it was a bad ecm but were not able to give much more than a 50/50 chance that was it. While the boat was in storage I sent the ecm out to be tested figuring for a small fee I would know for sure. So much for that thought.

You know I’m just not sure what you are facing there to be honest. I’d have thought they would know well enough. A rinda is likely what they would have used to diagnose it. It plugs into the engine to show a wealth of faults stored previously and currently. Should have shown what it was.
I would have thought a bad ecu would ruin everything really.
Really hoping ACchris chips in here. He really knows his rinda ways. I’ve never used one and only used the vessel view for my issues. He does it on a more industrial scale.
Ecu failire at a guess would cause injector, fuelling and all sorts all out the window. Yours seems to be doing the tell tale standard mpi thing leading to the usual suspects.
 

QBhoy

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Typical examples.
 

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nasdaqsam

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You know I’m just not sure what you are facing there to be honest. I’d have thought they would know well enough. A rinda is likely what they would have used to diagnose it. It plugs into the engine to show a wealth of faults stored previously and currently. Should have shown what it was.
I would have thought a bad ecu would ruin everything really.
Really hoping ACchris chips in here. He really knows his rinda ways. I’ve never used one and only used the vessel view for my issues. He does it on a more industrial scale.
Ecu failire at a guess would cause injector, fuelling and all sorts all out the window. Yours seems to be doing the tell tale standard mpi thing leading to the usual suspects.

I sure hope so all the alternatives are Tre' expensive.
 

Fun Times

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For us in the forum world to try and help such as this of us not knowing much regarding your specific marine technician's fuel injection experience capabilities, what engine models he's used to seeing on the daily basis of using his preferred fuel injected scan software for in-depth sensor output testing, reading, etc., Rinda is an often preferred marine scan tool to recommend that most anyone would be able to buy such as boat owners themselves, new or old boat technician's, dealers, etc., to help narrow down a lot of EFI engine diagnostics issues as it's easier to use outside of being specifically trained to use a specific engine branded; dealer capable software/computer connected to factory scan tool system that often needs updating via a internet connection and password protected.

Here's the (an) easy to use Rinda scan tool typically referenced online, https://www.rinda.com/techmatepro/index.html
There are a slight few other marine scan systems out there too it's just sort of hard to know on our end if what your marine tech is using might help with your engine brand problems is all being he seems to do diesel stuff which could be a wide variety of engine brands that may or may not pick up on your Mercruiser engine 496 MPI/555 PCM correctly...Again it's us not knowing his knowledge evident of your mention the boat has also been to a certified mercruiser dealer in the past that couldn't seem to help all that much themselves for the time spent on your engine.

Though sort of hard to theories on this as to why exactly as you'd think it'd be an idle RPM only issue, The IAC on a 496 MPI has been known to do some real odd things to this engines performance wise and warning horn wise at all RPM ranges plus it's been known to melt the IAC's wire connector harness and/or have an internal PCM failure of the IAC circuit as it's a motor driven 12 volt system...Not the 5 volt system of sensors.

That mentioned regarding the IAC, it sounds like you've been mostly all through it and it don't seem to be the case any longer and probably is the case here, 'Though you can't/haven't and shouldn't rule/d it out completely just yet, 'Like the Rinda scan tool does there may be a test feature within your service tech's software that could try preforming an IAC output test to see if it helps does anything to help know if you should continue down the IAC's path or not before heading elsewhere.
Fully remove, check and reinsert (all) the fuses for the IAC circuit.

Also you mentioned the tech is testing high RPM's while not under load and only able to get to 2400? RPM...Though you may be seeing something there not in gear under load because it's seems about the same as you recalled being on the water doing the same, please just be aware that not testing under load you may not find or notice the exact same lost performance symptoms as other possible normal working sensor features could be duplicating your true performance issues such as like over revving and the rev limiter holding the RPM down.

^ Sometimes the shift actuation switch might think the gear is in neutral gear even though you are in forward gear and the PCM sees that and if so you should be able to read that on the scan tool used as you shift through the gears.

One thought to maybe consider trying if at all possible would be to try your thought to be bad PCM on a known good running engine of the same year, model, fuel design system as your engine is to see if the good engine stays running correctly with your PCM....But don't put a good/someone else known good PCM on your engine in case something on your engine is causing damage to the PCM.

I can sort of see where Whipple can only be vague with their responses as they ask that before sending the PCM in you do the best diagnostics as possible and from there they know what to inspect from past experience of visual and multimeter testing, etc. as they have done/repaired many over the years now. Though I don't know if they keep a in-depth paper trail of what they tested/repaired exactly for each unit that comes in the door?

If they didn't see anything wrong then at this point you can only run with the assumption the PCM ought to be alright and something on the engine is bad unless you can try the PCM on another engine to satisfy the theory better.
 

nasdaqsam

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Messages
186
For us in the forum world to try and help such as this of us not knowing much regarding your specific marine technician's fuel injection experience capabilities, what engine models he's used to seeing on the daily basis of using his preferred fuel injected scan software for in-depth sensor output testing, reading, etc., Rinda is an often preferred marine scan tool to recommend that most anyone would be able to buy such as boat owners themselves, new or old boat technician's, dealers, etc., to help narrow down a lot of EFI engine diagnostics issues as it's easier to use outside of being specifically trained to use a specific engine branded; dealer capable software/computer connected to factory scan tool system that often needs updating via a internet connection and password protected.

Here's the (an) easy to use Rinda scan tool typically referenced online, https://www.rinda.com/techmatepro/index.html
There are a slight few other marine scan systems out there too it's just sort of hard to know on our end if what your marine tech is using might help with your engine brand problems is all being he seems to do diesel stuff which could be a wide variety of engine brands that may or may not pick up on your Mercruiser engine 496 MPI/555 PCM correctly...Again it's us not knowing his knowledge evident of your mention the boat has also been to a certified mercruiser dealer in the past that couldn't seem to help all that much themselves for the time spent on your engine.

Though sort of hard to theories on this as to why exactly as you'd think it'd be an idle RPM only issue, The IAC on a 496 MPI has been known to do some real odd things to this engines performance wise and warning horn wise at all RPM ranges plus it's been known to melt the IAC's wire connector harness and/or have an internal PCM failure of the IAC circuit as it's a motor driven 12 volt system...Not the 5 volt system of sensors.

That mentioned regarding the IAC, it sounds like you've been mostly all through it and it don't seem to be the case any longer and probably is the case here, 'Though you can't/haven't and shouldn't rule/d it out completely just yet, 'Like the Rinda scan tool does there may be a test feature within your service tech's software that could try preforming an IAC output test to see if it helps does anything to help know if you should continue down the IAC's path or not before heading elsewhere.
Fully remove, check and reinsert (all) the fuses for the IAC circuit.

Also you mentioned the tech is testing high RPM's while not under load and only able to get to 2400? RPM...Though you may be seeing something there not in gear under load because it's seems about the same as you recalled being on the water doing the same, please just be aware that not testing under load you may not find or notice the exact same lost performance symptoms as other possible normal working sensor features could be duplicating your true performance issues such as like over revving and the rev limiter holding the RPM down.

^ Sometimes the shift actuation switch might think the gear is in neutral gear even though you are in forward gear and the PCM sees that and if so you should be able to read that on the scan tool used as you shift through the gears.

One thought to maybe consider trying if at all possible would be to try your thought to be bad PCM on a known good running engine of the same year, model, fuel design system as your engine is to see if the good engine stays running correctly with your PCM....But don't put a good/someone else known good PCM on your engine in case something on your engine is causing damage to the PCM.

I can sort of see where Whipple can only be vague with their responses as they ask that before sending the PCM in you do the best diagnostics as possible and from there they know what to inspect from past experience of visual and multimeter testing, etc. as they have done/repaired many over the years now. Though I don't know if they keep a in-depth paper trail of what they tested/repaired exactly for each unit that comes in the door?

If they didn't see anything wrong then at this point you can only run with the assumption the PCM ought to be alright and something on the engine is bad unless you can try the PCM on another engine to satisfy the theory better.
Thank you for the in depth reply. Let me see if I can go through it and give some comments/answers. Not sure I can specifically speak to his fuel injection knowledge I just know he works on a lot of boats and has been doing it for years he. The Mercruiser guy we took it too just seemed to me to be more of a throw parts at it type of approach.

I did speak to him today about the Rinda his old computer is a Mercruiser specific one with Rinda. Both are showing no power to the IAC. That is the only code currently showing but as stated it does not stay as a code as it should. Once the key has been turned off and back on the code is gone until started again. I didn't think the key cycle code reset a code.

I understand about the load not loaded testing but he does not have a test prop so we do not have a lot of choice in the matter currently.

With the idle it will idle forever and not send a code. It purrs like a kitten when idling. It is only when rpm's are added that it starts to act up.

With the given circumstances I know it is all but impossible to diagnose via a forum but I have no other resources to get the boat to anywhere that could go through it. At best there might be a place several hundred miles south of me but I wouldn't know if I was getting a good shop or not I have no knowledge of anyone in different areas I could be going to someone that doesn't know anymore than I do. And also unless I go 400 or 500 miles south anyone just south of my location are all working on regular customer boats getting them out of storage and ready for the season it will be weeks if not months before I could get an appointment.

I understand what you are saying about Whipple I was under the impression one of these ECM's could be run through a diagnostic program that fully tests every component. It would seem if you can rewrite a program to have one act as they wish and before throwing just any ECM on a highly modified super charged engine I would think this is something that is not left to chance. Is there no such ability to do that? The problem is now we are back to square one is it the ECM or not?

with all that said with the info we have to work with knowing the IAC has no power which full well could be the ECM or any other number of things. We ordered an SW switch as they are relatively inexpensive. When he installs that he is going to get the percentage of guardian it goes into. Maybe the switch will fix it we will see.

Thanks for the reply this all helps narrow things down.
 

nasdaqsam

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Messages
186
check the IAC harness as FT mentioned, many have melted. Ring the harness out

He did a visual inspection and ran a wire as far back as he could everything seemed fine. What is ringing the harness? Thanks
 

alldodge

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Ringing out is old school, sorry I'm old

Take a ohm meter and connect each pin of the IAC to its corresponding connection, (power, ground, PCM, sense) and see if you get zero ohms
 

nasdaqsam

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Aug 2, 2011
Messages
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Ringing out is old school, sorry I'm old

Take a ohm meter and connect each pin of the IAC to its corresponding connection, (power, ground, PCM, sense) and see if you get zero ohms
lol. Ok that makes sense now. Our plan for the time being is the new SW will be in tomorrow he will install that and test it. If no resolution he will get me the percentage of guardian it is hitting. And he has a similar engine coming in for service the guy said we could swap out the ECM to see if his fixes my issue so at least can determine if the ECM is indeed good or bad. We will have to readdress once we get to that point if there is still an issue. If the ECM is good and it is still doing it hopefully the percentage points in the right direction and we can check the harness. I will update once we know more. Thanks
 

nasdaqsam

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Messages
186
The SW switch did not fix the issue. Now we wait for the other boat to come in to test the computer while we wait for that just for my own info I have a question. I was under the impression that when something throws a code on the computer the only way to clear it is manually. The IAC codes when the engine is running but immediately clears when the key is turned off and back on is it suppose to do this?
 

muc

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The SW switch did not fix the issue. Now we wait for the other boat to come in to test the computer while we wait for that just for my own info I have a question. I was under the impression that when something throws a code on the computer the only way to clear it is manually. The IAC codes when the engine is running but immediately clears when the key is turned off and back on is it suppose to do this?

Yes.
If the fault is no longer occurring it will get “cleared” from the main screen. That’s why I asked about fault seconds and freeze frame earlier. That information is in the history section.
 

muc

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Maybe I can explain this better.
I assume you are looking at the active faults screen. For an IAC fault to be active certain parameters must be present. It would seem that for your fault to be active those parameters aren’t present at idle but are once you increase RPMs. So what you’re seeing is normal.
Where your mechanic needs to look is in the history section.
 

nasdaqsam

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Aug 2, 2011
Messages
186
Maybe I can explain this better.
I assume you are looking at the active faults screen. For an IAC fault to be active certain parameters must be present. It would seem that for your fault to be active those parameters aren’t present at idle but are once you increase RPMs. So what you’re seeing is normal.
Where your mechanic needs to look is in the history section.

Ok that makes sense I will him check the history. At this point it is looking more and more like the ECM is bad. All the sensors test out as they should all wiring has been tested the fuel pressure and all those numbers are spot on. Just have to wait to swap that one and see if it fixes it. Thanks
 
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