NO SPARK: 1963 40hp Johnson Model RDS-25D. Please feel the pain

[E_Man]

Hi,<br /><br />First of all a big thanks for helping out. I have some knowledge with motors, as I have changed one or two before.<br /><br />Problem:<br />I bought this boat and motor a couple of days ago. The previous owner specified that the motor ran beautifully about 3 years ago, but has not been run ever since.<br /><br />The motor turns over, but does not spark. I was told to check the coils for corrosion/rust. I spent the whole day removing the cover, and flywheel. When I removed the coils I discovered that the connection to the spark wires was VERY rusy, preventing conduction. I cleaned the pins throughly and tested them with a vom to make sure they are conducting. Unfortunately, this did not help! What else should I do? Is there any way to check the condtion of the coils (resistance/voltage/current/etc) with a vom? The coils have 3 leads: Green, Black, and the spark plug wires.<br /><br />I was told to check the kill switch, but I don't know how exactly the wiring is supposed to be. I also heard that I should inspect the stator (whatever that part is, I suspect its the part in the black box inside the boat that sits between the positive lead running to the battery and the positive lead running to the engine), but I don't know what values (voltage/resistance/etc) to check for. <br /><br />Perhaps the coils are not getting any power. My opinion (not that it matters) is that there is a protection measure (like a kill switch) that is being activated preventing the coils from getting the power needed to spark. What else I can do to correctly and quickly diagnose?<br /><br />Can anyone PLEASE help me out with my problem. I am willing to call YOU long-distance to make this convenient. I will be checking my e-mail often so please feel free to send me a message with your phone number, or help out on the forum.<br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Eyal.

 

[byacey]

Re: NO SPARK: 1963 40hp Johnson Model RDS-25D. Please feel the pain

The black box is the solenoid, and has nothing to do with the ignition. It 's a big relay to operate the starter.<br /><br /> Make sure the point contacts under the flywheel are clean, polished and dry, and set to the proper gap of .020". They can be polished with some 400 wet and dry sandpaper.<br />The condensers (little metal cans with a wire out the end) that sit next to the points can be tested if you have a digital meter that can measure capacitance. They should be around 0.25mfd. Condensers are pretty robust and are probably that last part to fail with age.Spark plug gap should be 0.030" . The kill swirtch is connected between the points. If it's shorted or in the "on" position, this will prevent ignition from working. If all is in order, the coils are probably dead. Do they show any signs of cracks in the molded plastic?

 

[E_Man]

Re: NO SPARK: 1963 40hp Johnson Model RDS-25D. Please feel the pain

Hi Bill,<br /><br />Thanks for the quick reply. When I removed the flywheel, I was impressed how clean all the points were (except the points leading to the spark wires). I did not check the condnsers yet, but I will check tomorrow for 25 micro Farads (I am good with electronics!). Just two questions about your post:<br />1. What "proper gap" of .020" are you reffering to under the flywheel?<br />2. The kill switch is between which two points? Condensor and the spark plugs???<br /><br />If you would like I can call you anytime just let me know.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Eyal.

 

[Xcusme]

Re: NO SPARK: 1963 40hp Johnson Model RDS-25D. Please feel the pain

Eyal,<br />Bill mentions the point gap. You should have 2 sets of breaker points. To adjust the points, rotate the crankshaft until the flywheel key is aligned with the rub block (bit that touches the breaker cam)on the points. Open or close the gap on the point set (via slotted screw) until a setting of .020 is achieved. Repeat these steps for the other set of breaker points. <br /><br />The kill switch is a nornally open type momentary contact switch. The two wires from this kill switch go to each of the breaker points, one wire to one set, the other wire to the other set. These two wires are connected to their respective set of points to the same screw that the condenser and coil are connected to. So , you will have 3 wires on each point set, one coil wire, one condenser lead and one kill wire.<br /><br />When the kill switch is pressed, it connects both sets of breaker points and this grounds the primary coil voltages, thus killing the spark to both plugs. The kill wires typically have an inline 'knife type contact' covered with a bit of tubing. Slide the tubing down the wire and uncouple the connector. Opening the kill wires disables the ability to stop the running motor. To stop the motor, you must fully choke the motor.<br /><br />You didn't mention if the coils were cracked.Cracked coils cause all sorts of ignition problems and should be replaced.

 

[E_Man]

Re: NO SPARK: 1963 40hp Johnson Model RDS-25D. Please feel the pain

Hi Bill & Xcuzme,<br /><br />Contrary to belief, the plastic parts of the coils are in very good shape, and the clear silicon-type side looks good too. <br /><br />Today I took off the flywheel and observed the points as I turned the crankshaft. I set the points such that the farthest they reach as I turn the crankshaft is about 1mm (I tried others like you said but no luck). When I turn the crankshaft a turn or two I did NOT see a spark from the points. But I could have sworn I saw VERY SMALL sparks on the plug once in a while when I crank the engine and ground the plug. But again, these are very small sparks. I'm starting to suspect that it might be either the coil contacts, or lack of power being fed to the coil input. Is there any way to test the voltage to the input of the coil with a vom? I'm guessing its one lead on the positive and one on the negitive (of course)?<br /><br />One other thing, before I cleaned the coil OUTPUT (to the spark plug wires) pins, they had a ***THICK*** lair of rust/corrosion. I cleaned them by using a drill bit to expose the bair metal, but could only expose so much. Perhaps they are not clean enough and even though they are conducting (as I tested), there might not be enough material to transfer the spark?<br /><br />Last but not least, is there a way to TEST the condition of the coil? I know inductors are measured in henrys, but how do I test them? Perhaps someone better than I am in electonics can shed some light.<br /><br />I could not test the condensors, as my vom is not capable of checking capatictance. I will try to obtain one tomorrow.<br /><br />Once again thanks for reading, and remember I can call you long-distance for your convenience if its too much trouble.<br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Eyal.<br />P.S. I also tried to disconnect the KILL wire (Black w/ Red tips) to test as well but got the same result. I also tried to disconnect the BROWN wire (which goes from the "engine overheated" switch in the front, to inside the engine right beside the spark plug holes) and also got the same result.

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: NO SPARK: 1963 40hp Johnson Model RDS-25D. Please feel the pain

Power does not get fed to the coils. They are self-powered by the magnet in the flywheel. That way if your electrical dies your outboard will still run fine.<br /><br />Your ignition coils are not original if they're the potted type you're describing. Go over them very carefully looking for any signs of cracking.<br /><br />Condensors are very rarely a problem. And having two go at once is even less likely.<br /><br />The face of the contacts must be absolutely clean in order for them to work. Is there any sign of oil, etc, up around them? Did you try dressing them with 600 grit sandpaper or something? Also make sure the contact between the point's spring and the body of the point is good.<br /><br />The ignition coils were redesigned a few times, and there's no good test for them. You should read somewhere between 3.7kohms and around 7kohms between the high voltage needle and either primary wire. The resistance between primary wires is about 1 ohm. But neither of those tests are conclusive since the main way these fail is by cracking, which does not affect the electrical tests. Even a ring test rarely proves anything.<br /><br />Oh, the flywheel key is intact and everything on the crankshaft's taper right? It's not sheared or partially sheared is it? The cam that operates the points, is it removable? If so, is it right-side up?