Newbie seeks first boat advice

[Kimper]

I tried to read through most of the newbie threads here, and did pick up some great advice. I still have some questions though.
First I will provide as much detail as I can about my situation/wants/needs

Setting:
We just bought a lake house in Texas on Lake LBJ (all freshwater). The house has a boat house so we won't be trailering the boat any. It has an electric lift to store the boat out of the water.

Who:
Mostly my wife and I and couple friends. We have no kids. It will mostly be just the two of us and I don't think we will ever need more room than for 6.

Uses:
Cruising around the lake and watersports. This area is one of my biggest areas of confusion. I grew up skiing behind friend's boats before wakeboarding even existed, now it seems there are all these very specific boats for these activities. I initially was looking at a Larson 180 Sport I/O or any of those small boats that use the MerCruiser 3.0 L WPS ? 135 HP. But after talking to a mastercraft sales guy he acted like it would be a miracle to pull any adult out of the water with that engine.
Also do I need a "tower" if I want to try out wakeboarding? Can you wakeboard just off the tie at the back of the boat?

Budget:
Want to stay under 20k

Personal Information:
I am a physician and have no knowledge/skills about working on engines. I am fairly mechanical, but that knowledge is centered around computers, A/V equipment and minor home remodeling/repairs. Give me a good book and I can learn anything, but I really don't want to have boat (engine) problems. Wanting to avoid this has given me a fear of used boats, but for economic reasons I would prefer to avoid the new boat depreciation hit.. I was thinking that a used boat from a dealership with some form of warranty or at least some one to turn to if it dies might be my best bet?

Preferances:
Inboard/outboard or inboard. I just like the looks of these boats better.

Gas Use concerns:
I want to use the boat alot, so would like it to not guzzle gas.

I have been looking at entry level boats from:
Larson
Sting Ray
Four Winns
Caravelle

All those companies have "bowriders" that seem to mostly use these engines:
MerCruiser 3.0 L WPS ? 135 HP
MerCruiser 4.3 L ? 190 HP
Volvo Penta 3.0 GL WPS ? 135 HP
Volvo Penta 4.3 GL ? 190 HP

If those engines/boats won't satisfy my skiing wakeboarding interest then I will start looking at used models with more Horsepower.

Thanks beforehand for any input and ideas for my first boat!!

 

[KCook]

Re: Newbie seeks first boat advice

Standby for a whole lot of different opinions!

1st choice - Used 20' Chaparral, Ebbtide, or Four Winns with V8 (never mind the fuel burn)

2nd choice - Used 20' Maxum or Monterey with V8

3rd choice - New Caravelle 187 with V6 (tuff to meet the $20k though)

4th choice - New Larson Senza 186 with V6

The boat with the best fuel economy will simply be the tinyest boat. Which will also beat you up when your lake is rough. On most popular lakes (traffic stirs up waves) a 20' boat is a well worthwhile choice.

Kelly Cook

 

[Dakota47]

Re: Newbie seeks first boat advice

New/used 2006 Chaparrel 18ft with the Volvo 4.3 V-6 GL motor. Thats my next boat.. Rinkers are good too. I like the New Cobalts also...

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Newbie seeks first boat advice

the 4.3L is the minimum for me. but, i had the great opportunity to be chosen for the iboats, crowd to go test drive this new boat, in June. it is high quality and i suggest you atleast look at it before purchasing.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=198208&highlight=test+drive

 

[crb478]

Re: Newbie seeks first boat advice

I would not go smaller than the 4.3 or 19 foot and before I bought the boat I would try it out on a crowded lake with six people in the boat. That should be your worst case senario. If you are happy with how it preforms then, you will love it in smooth water with just you and your wife. There are several good models out there, but you might want to pick a model that has good service and parts availibility close to you.

 

[QC]

Re: Newbie seeks first boat advice

I like Kelly's list although in comparison it takes hardly any power to get a Wakeboarder up compared to a Slalom skier . . . I used a 3.0 to pull Slalom skiers a lot. Even a big skier, if skilled, can get up behind one. With that said, Kelly's right, fuel savings would equal .000001 % of your expenses. There is no substitute for horsepower.

 

[tmh]

Re: Newbie seeks first boat advice

Well, most people who buy 18' bowriders move up in size due to : 1. Just need more room to move around/etc and/or 2. When the lake is rough )wind OR wake from other boats) an 18' get beat up.

With all adults, 6 people are more than I'd want on an 18 footer anyhow, unless it is a rare occurance - very different with kids who can all cram into the bow! Also, a tube, wakeboard, cooler, "stuff" and even with some storage you have a crowded 18' boat.

With $20k you can get an excellent used, but nearly "like new" 19-20' bowrider. Kelly's list is fine, many others too. TEST DRIVE any boat you are interested in, see how it handles, etc. Also, make sure a used boat was VERY well cared for - many are kept in GREAT condition from owners who baby them - that's the one YOU want to buy for that budget range....even for a few thousand $$$ more ! Meet the previous owner even if bought from a dealer if you can. You'll get a feel how sad they are (or glad) to have to (or want to) sell their prize (or pain in the ....).

I'd never consider the 135 hp if I had anywhere near $20k to spend. They can be fun and perform fine, but they limit you. The 4.3L would be fine for the 18' IMO. If 19-20', then, yeah, I'd go with more power V8. As was said, the gas efficiency of the 6 cyl vs. the 8 cyl, although very true, winds up a drop in the bucket for boat ownership. Sad, but true.

Make sure your wife likes the boat you buy! Let us know what you find along the way.

 

[Kimper]

Re: Newbie seeks first boat advice

tashasdaddy,

That Bayliner 205 looks pretty good, but the MSRP on the web site for a new one is 29,437. From reading your article and comments I am assuming prior years boats weren't as great? Probably hard to find a 2008 used...

Thanks others for input I am researching!

 

[KCook]

Re: Newbie seeks first boat advice

No used '08s yet! In fact, though you can find some used boats that are current year or only a couple of years old, these are difficult to shop. That is because the seller often owes more on the loan than the actual market value of the boat. So he puts a price on his prize nearly as high as a new boat. If you are looking for used boats think 3 - 6 years old for decent prices.

Kelly

 

[Kimper]

Re: Newbie seeks first boat advice

Kcook,

The 187 Caravelle comes with these engine choices:
Mercury 4.3L 190 $24,715
Volvo 4.3GL 190 $24,572
Mercury 4.3 MPI 220 $26,643
Volvo 4.3GXi 225 $26,500

Which one is the V6 you refered to?
Are any of those fuel injected? Should I care?

Also, The new vs used thing is giving me fits. The new boat dealer was yaking about how most boaters leave gas sitting in the tank for several months and it "degrades" therefore "gumming" up carbeurators and somehow jacking up the pistons.. He went on and on about how short of disassembling the engine you just never know about used boats. Great scare tactic for someone who is engine and boat ignorant.. thoughts?

 

[KCook]

Re: Newbie seeks first boat advice

Err, both 220 hp motors have fuel injection. The 190 hp jobs are the old carb.

1st choice Volvo GXi
2nd choice Merc MPI
3rd choice (flip coin between carb motors)

"Scare tactic" is exactly what that dealer is dishing out. To say that "most boaters" gum up their motors is just wrong!!! With any used boat it will be a good idea to have the motor and drive checked by a marine mechanic. Or, if you buy a used boat from a dealer, he may offer some sort of maintenance plan for peace of mind.

Kelly

 

[brwalkersk8]

Re: Newbie seeks first boat advice

I am the guy that tried to save money...I bought a 17.5 foot 3.0 mercruiser. I am much in the same situation as you in that it is usually just me and my wife and maybe another couple. I love my boat as we can be out all day wakeboarding and go thru half a tank of gas. It has plenty of power. I had 5 people and three 100 lbs dogs in the boat and it pulls me up salolom no problem. You do have to learn to drive and make sure the wieght is in the right place, but if you get to know your boat it really isn't a problem. I only paid 5K for my boat. As it is my first I am sure someday I will upgrade (when we have kids) but for now and for a first boat I say buy used and save money (make sure you and your wife really like it and have time for it). Every time out is a learning experience and most times I do something I will remember to never do again. I am glad some of the mistakes I have made were on a used boat and not a brand spankin new one. What ever you think it will cost you to get into boating I say double that and you are about right. I love it anyway!!!

 

[QC]

Re: Newbie seeks first boat advice

Brian speaks the truth ^^^^^^^^

 

[daniel2229]

Re: Newbie seeks first boat advice

Kimper,

I got last year's 2006 model at the Dayton boat show and saved a bundle after factory and dealer rebates. It is a Seaswirl 170 and is a Genmar family boat along with Four Winns and Larson. I understand that after this year Seaswirl will no longer make sport boats, only the fishing walk-arounds. But I think I made the right choice for my first boat.

My daughter's family have only been on the boat twice. My son, who is the one person who will like to tube until the lake foams, has not even seen the boat yet. So, it has been my wife and I every weekend just tooling around Ceasars Creek Lake in SW Ohio fishing and taking leisurely joy rides.

It serves us well even though it only has the small 3.0 engine. Comes up to plane well and rides nicely even in "walleye chop." It can be a bit of a rough ride when really windy. The slower you go, the more likely you are to get splashed by larger waves. The only change I would make to the boat is maybe start with a 20 footer so I could take it out on Lake Erie, which is noted for fast changing weather and really choppy waves.

The fact that you have a boat house eliminates the need to trailer, and that's why I went with the 170. It goes where ever I point the tow vehicle! No problems getting in or out or negotiating traffic on the way to the lake. And, it fits in my mother-in-law's garage!

My wife prompted me to buy the boat -- imagine that -- so, she was there when we found the boat. I was looking at the entry level Bayliner 185, but she thought this one was a better deal. After you put in all the necessary options, the Seaswirl was a much better bargain!

Best wishes with your choice!

 

[Matt S]

Re: Newbie seeks first boat advice

You have the same boating requirements as us when we were shopping during the winter. 80% of the time it's just my wife and I, and the dog, and we wanted something fuel efficient, trouble free etc.

Now we got the Glastron GT-185..Not on your list but I will say that comparing the Larson side by side (literally one isle over) at the boat show left me wondering where the extra $5k was in the Larson 185..and it didn't have a swim platform like the Glastron. Hull-wise..they are almost (if not) identical. I measured both, took pictures of both, stared long term at both, and could not find a difference. Same "VEC" hull and waranty. Then when I got the "thanks" package, the concerned workers email was "@larsonglastron.com". It was at this moment I looked again at both the sales literature books and realized the SAME factory photos were in both Larson and Glastron. A 3.0 is a 3.0 between those 2, so we went cheaper not really caring about the few extra trinkets in the Larson that added up to significantly more. Our *out the door* price for the GT-185 3.0L volvo, sport top (bimini that buttons to windshield), sharkskin mooring/trailer cover, galvanized disc brake single axle EZ Loader w/spare and bracket was $18,900.

Performance:

We've had the GT-185 for 4 months now. With the stock propeller it handled 5 adults (3 over 200lbs) for cruising just fine topping out around 38mph. At the most I lost 2 seconds to plane with that load. When it's just us I can hit 45mph easily. My friend (250lbs) likes to wakeboard and the 3.0L had trouble pulling him out, but it did, with 2 other 200lb people on board and me driving (165lbs). I went from the stock 14.3x21 pitch to a 14.5x19 pitch prop and he is perfectly happy with being pulled out of the water with 4 adults and the dog on baord. Pops right up. Sweet.

Since I have owned this boat I have 18 hours on it and I've used a grand total of 33 gallons. Another perspective: I filled up and took my friend wake boarding, put 3 hours on the boat pulling him and the gauge never moved off full until returning to trailer when it bounced once from a big wave. I don't know how less efficient the 6cyl would be, but I'm impressed with planing ability, efficiency and just how much torque the little 3.0 has.

I imagine the Larson would perform very similarly. I just couldn't justify the $3500 extra for the 4.3L in the Glastron, nor the extra $5000 for the same 3.0L Larson.
So that's my $.02

 

[Kimper]

Re: Newbie seeks first boat advice

Great posts Brian, Matt, Daniel. Nice to see I am not alone
So Brian goes used and you other two go new and all are happy pulling skiers with the 3.0L 135 HP merc/volvo. Good info!

Another option has opened up to me via a physician friend with a 2000 CorrectCraft Air Nautique with 100 hours and full time marina care since day of purchase. (Supposedly they start it up and care for the boat since it gets very little use). The guy says he has no idea what the boat is worth and will have to get back to me on price. From BoatTrader it looks like 23-30k is a likely range. I was thinking that if he let it go for 20k that would be a heck of a deal... But I am still scared about the gas consumption on this 310HP beast. I have no doubt it would be a great boat, but how much will that thing cost me to operate? Wife tells me she wants to cruise around lots and doesn't want a lecture on saving gas everytime she wants to drive it around....
Keep the input coming it is great!

 

[KCook]

Re: Newbie seeks first boat advice

Here is a thread on another site that will give you an idea of how much gas the different types and sizes use. Note the entry for the "Nautique V-drive" in the 2nd table -

http://www.boatingabc.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/233113/page/0/fpart/1

Kelly

 

[tmh]

Re: Newbie seeks first boat advice

That post on the glastron vs. Larson was just the impression i got at a local boat show! Now, i was NOT in the market for a boat so i didn't study them, but boy, i sure couldn't see any $4k difference! I think Glastron is one of the companies that has benefitted from the multi-line companies and have boosted quality while maintaining entry level pricing.

A few things to consider in the 3.0l engines on the small boats; first, they are more versitile if you are willing to change props based on what you're doing that day. As someone above said, a 21" prop was nice for cruising or small load, but for real skiing/wakeboarding/tubing the drop to a 19" was preferred. I'd bet an 18" 4-blade would be even more improvement for pulling.

Also, yes, you do save on gas vs. the 4.3 when cruising and low load, but when pulling watersports, the savings go way down as he 3.0 is working far harder than the 4.3.

Not an expert, but doesn't wakeboarding take less pull/effort from he boat than skiing or tubing? Could be another factor.

One last thing, I dn't see much discussion of ride quality here. Is your wife OK with bouncing and slamming aound sometimes? Truth is, most wives aren't. Heck, me and my boys prefer some big bounces out there - kind of a thrill ride, but not my wife! No matter what boat and no matter what anyone says, a 17-18' boat can really get smacked around on a medium sized lake or a busy lake.

 

[Kimper]

Re: Newbie seeks first boat advice

Kelly,
Great data there. The gallons per hour is kinda scary on alot of those boats. It looks like if gas is $3 gallon the Nautique would cost about $33 dollars an hour to run. The Caravelle 187 with a much smaller engine not that much cheaper to run. Wow! This is going to be expensive isn't it?

Is your wife OK with bouncing and slamming aound sometimes?

She probably would be ok with it, but my crew of 2 daschunds probably won't be. Boy, this is way more complicated than car shopping...

Thank you all again, loving all the input, and I am learning alot!

 

[KCook]

Re: Newbie seeks first boat advice

The pooches may be happier in a 22' pontoon, running at half the speed ...

Most first time shoppers want that first boat to do everything well. But that really requires 3 or 4 very different boats. If you're not sure about what is most important to you, try renting boats first.

Kelly