NEW INFO: Update to Sinking

[imported_scott_m]

New since this AM - was contacted by the insurance company and informed the boat is a CTL - Constructive Total Loss. Now to an insurance layman like me, total loss means total, however, she then went on to explain to me this means they will repair the boat and were processing a check to get the yard started on the boat. Interestingly, I did a search on CTL and found:<br /><br />Constructive total loss:<br />This means that repairs to your boat will exceed the market value of the boat when repaired.<br /><br />Why would the insurance want to do this knowing the repairs are more than the boat is worth?<br /><br />Original thread is here:<br /><br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=013365 <br /><br />Thought I'd update the forum on what we know so far. There was a significant t-storm the night of the sinking. There has been some talk of the scuppers being full of debris, however I'm not buying this - I clean them about once a month. Also, a minor breach was found in the hull. Many years ago, when I bought it - the gas motors had hydro silencers installed over the thru-hull exhaust to quiet the boat down. I had those removed and the repair was completed by a shop for me. Well, seems they filled the screw holes in with 5200. Further seems the diver who cleans the hull may have inadvertantly knocked the 5200 out of the screw holes (not angry with him he wouldn't have known about it anyway). So, ended up with about a quarter inch hole in the transom right at the water line.<br /><br />The final reason given was debris over the float switch - or something that held the float down - although no one can show any evidence of this.<br /><br />So bottom line in my mind is the cause of sinking is still unkown.<br /><br />The boat has been sitting at a yard for about 3 weeks now. The mechanic has run it again a couple of times - to move it to a new yard and lift and said although most of the electricals don't work, the motors seem to be fine.<br /><br />Our current repair estimate is around $25,000, and we are still waiting to hear from our insurance company to see if they are going to total the boat or authorize the repairs.<br /><br />Thanks for listening.

 

[jaxsun]

Re: NEW INFO: Update to Sinking

unfortunate situation man...i hope everything works out well for you

 

[imported_scott_m]

Re: NEW INFO: Update to Sinking

Not nearly as unfortunate as all the things going on over there in LA hope your recovery is speedy from Katrina.

 

[AaronG]

Re: NEW INFO: Update to Sinking

There is no way anyone could knock the 5200 sealent out of a screw hole by cleaning the area around it. That stuff is EXTREAMLY strong. The only way I could see that happening is if the area around the 5200 was all rotted out.

 

[imported_scott_m]

Re: NEW INFO: Update to Sinking

I tend to disagree with you - I've seen 5200 come part with little effort - this 5200 has been partially submerged in water for about 7-8 years - was used to fill a screw hole and was basically feathered flat against bottom paint - not ideal bonding conditions. If you've never had to scrape barnacles off the water line then you might be surprised to see the amount of effort required to scrape the little critters off the hull. I'm not at all surprised, and have seen exactly where the 5200 was scraped off.<br /><br />Last year I had to change a thru-hull in my fishing boat - you'd be surprised how easily the 5200 bond that was used as the bedding compound for the thru hull broke lose.

 

[AaronG]

Re: NEW INFO: Update to Sinking

I've never seen 5200 fail unless the surface wasn't cleaned before it applied. Usually, whatever the 5200 is bonded to fails. If that screw hole is what sunk your boat, my guess is the wood around the screw hole was all rotted out, giving the 5200 nothing to bond to. I've fought with 5200 to remove different fittings on boats, and I am now very careful about what I use it on. If I ever plan to remove the component, I use something else. If it is below the waterline, and permenant, 5200 is the absolute strongest.

 

[Solittle]

Re: NEW INFO: Update to Sinking

Mack - Usually you have some say in the decision on what to do with your boat. If you do not agree with what they come up with - tell them. You should assume that everything electrical that was below the water is shot and not settle for anything less than complete replacement.

 

[imported_scott_m]

Re: NEW INFO: Update to Sinking

I have not personally seen the repair estimate, but in verbal conversations with the mechanic and surveyor, the list is pretty exhaustive - all new electricals, new gen, new AC, new fridge, new battery charger, new wiring harness, new pumps, new floats, new blowers, etc.<br /><br />The things that are not new that concern me are the transmissions, v-drives, and motors. My port motor sat for 24 hours with salt water in the cylnders. They attempted to start the starboard the day of the sinking, however, not all the water was removed from the cylnders and it was finally dried out after about 24 hours as well. The oil has only been changed once in each motor, and the filter has yet to be changed. What concerns me is the lenght of time the motors sat with water inside and the fact that they are not replacing the motors and transmissions (which would have pushed the dollar amount of the claim to a total loss). That's really what I want to push for now.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: NEW INFO: Update to Sinking

Mack, not sure what your carrier is thinking. If you call something a "constructive total loss" it's a total. I have had to use that term before in the situation where, say a car needs a complete floor pan, but you can't buy one. Then it's a "constructive total loss", I determined an ACV (actual cash value) then settled with the owner, and got the title to the car.<br />Boat policies can differ a little, and it would help for you to know what kind you have. But still, constructive total loss, means that repairs should cease, you should be paid for the value of the vessel per the policy, and then it becomes salvage. Hope that helps.

 

[imported_scott_m]

Re: NEW INFO: Update to Sinking

T,<br /><br />That's what I'm confused about. We have an agreed value policy at 37K. The current repair estimate is 25K and the adjuster called the situation a CTL - but they want to fix the boat. You're saying a CTL means I get the full amount of the agreed value - 37K? If that's the case, then I'd say the adjuster was incorrect in using the phrase CTL - it is a partial loss.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: NEW INFO: Update to Sinking

Ok, ok, thanks for the info. Here's what you got...<br />Your boat will cost more to repair than it's worth . But since there is still a gap of $12k between repair & your "agreed value", your insurance company wants to pay to fix it. They probably realize that they can not get $12 in salvage. So, it's repairable, under the terms of your policy, which is not an actual cash value policy (like your cars are).<br /><br />The adjuster should not have used the term "constructive total loss". That was a poor word choice. Your boat is repairable under the terms/conditions of your insurance policy.<br /><br />I have had to do the same thing, myself. Paid a shop's repair estimate of $4200 on a jetski worth $3500, but with an insured amount of $7000. However, I did pay just the owner, I did not include the shop on the "repair" check. That way, the owner cashed the $4200 check, sold the damaged jetski for parts, and used all $4200 towards the purchase of a new jetski. Any chance your carrier will do that for you?

 

[imported_scott_m]

Re: NEW INFO: Update to Sinking

I would think at this point the choice to repair vs. sell/part the boat out myself would be my decision - I have not even made a decision who will do the repair work, so I expect the repair checks will come in my name only. My wife and I are just now discussing this possibility. I agree the adjusters choice of CTL was the wrong choice of words - as you point out it is a partial repairable loss. However, if she keeps pushing the point of it being a CTL do I quote her the textbook definition of CTL and ask for the full agreed value?

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: NEW INFO: Update to Sinking

However, if she keeps pushing the point of it being a CTL do I quote her the textbook definition of CTL and ask for the full agreed value?

That certainly seems like an idea, doesn't it??? It might not hurt to ask, nicely. Just approach it this way, "you keep calling it a constuctive total loss. Well, if that's the case, when can I bring you the title, and get my $37000 check?"<br /><br />Is it worth it to you to take the $25k and keep the boat?<br /><br />Also, maybe the CR is telling you the CTL, so that you get it to a qualified shop, they write an estimate of $40000 repair, and then, viola, he/she has the documentation that they need to make it a total. Kinda one of those, "we are gonna pay for repair, until someone proves that it can't be repaired for that."<br /><br />I'd be happy to discuss this on the phone with you, and impart any wisdom/strategies that my 7 years in the insurance industry has given me. How can I send you my number, without everyone seeing it?

 

[imported_scott_m]

Re: NEW INFO: Update to Sinking

Well the thing is - I am concerned about a little collusion between the surveyor (hired by the insurance company), and the mechanic (hired by the surveyor). Insurance is telling the surveyor - keep the estimate cheap. Surveyor is telling the mechanic - keep it cheap. Mechanic is doing what he's told because surveyor has told him the jobs in the bag if we can make this a repairable. No, it is not worth it to me to keep the 25K and the boat. I don't have the time nor facilities to fix the boat properly, and it's not worth selling as salvage even at 10K.<br /><br />Had not thought about a second repair estimate - when we threatened two weeks ago to use a different yard the current mechanic became a lot more accomodating in the way of finding storage, etc. I may need to hire someone independent - not part of the situation - and have them write me a repair estimate.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: NEW INFO: Update to Sinking

Ding Ding Ding! Yes, an Independent third party is definately a good idea.<br /><br />Also, use rodbolts suggestions in your other thread about what the minimun needs to be done to the motors. Have you posed them to the mechanic that the surveyor hired?<br /><br />I really don't think the insurance company is colluding. It's the surveyor that is doing this. He operates under the theory (many do) "keep the repair cost down for the insurance company, or they won't hire me any more". What theory he should be operating under is "What does the insurance contract say is covered, and how do we achieve the best repair possible to that goal?" <br />I suspect your insurance company's rep is totally clueless about boats. And seriously, if you get her a second estimate, and then the surveyor's mechanic comes around even more, she'll total the boat. She just doesn't have the numbers to justify it yet. (I will bet you a nickel that she has already said to her supervisor, "I want this claim closed, not open for one year, but I can't make the numbers work out to total the boat, what do I do?")<br /><br />And on your other thread, guys like cobra and Searay are the ones who cause more problems and expense for everyone. You have the correct attitude as evidenced by your last post.<br /><br />Keep us posted