Main gas tank developing vacuum.

2stroke1971

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
209
1985 Bayliner Capri cuddy, 1950.....Ive has this boat for 3 years now. i have tried to use the main gas tank several times with no luck. I cleaned it out really REALLY well this time, bone dry. I put a new sending switch/float in it.

I only put about 5 gallons in the main tank it in case it failed again (I have a pair of plastic tanks, a 12 gallon and a 6 gallon, under the rear deck that I have been using up until now)

I de-winterized the boat on one of the remote tanks so I got it running that way. (I also put a new fuel pump in over the winter--its a Volvo AQ125 4 cylinder by the way)

On the first launch of the year I hooked up the main tank, started it up. After about 10 minutes of warming up and chugging through the marina to open water, it crapped out. Wouldn't start, then would start and run roughly. Something was making a tapping noise, turned out to be the fuel pump- I think it was running dry?!?!? I switched over to a remote tank, the pump quieted down, and I went fishing. The boat ran great all night. Later I tried the main tank again and had the same thing happen all over again. When disconnecting the connector at the main tank there was a good hissing sound like there had been a vacuum in the line.

I know you might be scratching your heads, but this is how I have it set up: I have the brass outboard connectors on the remote tanks as is normally the case. From the (mechanical) fuel pump, the hose has the plastic female outboard connector on the far end. This way, I can easily switch between remote tanks when one runs dry. Been doing this for three years, no problems. Of course, there is no need for a squeeze ball...its just that I use the outboard connectors for convenience' sake.

Down on the main tank I have (you guessed it) a brass outboard connector just like on the remote tanks. I was thinking that might be a problem but I cant see why. I checked the vent line to the main tank and it is not clogged, I can blow into it and it will blow back at me....I can suck in on it and get some nice fumes in my mouth, but boy they just are not the same with all that alcohol in the gas.:D

Heres another piece of my puzzle...when draining the tank with a siphon pump over the winter, I put a quick connect fitting on the end of the pump and plugged it into that outboard connector down on the tank...the siphon would start, but would peter out, and there would be a vacuum in the tank. I wound up taking the whole cap off where the sending unit was and shoved the bare end of the siphon hose down into the tank. That, of course, worked.

Why would I be getting a vacuum from the main tank if the vent is not clogged?
Any advice would be appreciated!
 
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
940
Re: Main gas tank developing vacuum.

Well, the simple answer is - the vent is blocked somewhere! I can't think of any other reason for a vacuum buildup. Are any of those connectors "one way"? If so, it's possible it's in backwards?
 

81_chapparel194

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
341
Re: Main gas tank developing vacuum.

try running it with out your gas cap on for the main tank. (on the hose not in the water) and see if it tries to suck closed then. if it doesnt then you have a blocked or partially clogged vent line. mud bugs (dirt daubbers) will find the worst places to build nests. if it still does it with the gas cap off then you have a serious never seen before problem lol just kidding if it does do it with the cap off then your issue is with the fittings installed on the tank. although it works fine with the secondary plastic tank i would think it should work just as well on the main tank. maybe you have a bad quick connect fitting on your tank. try switching it with a known working one on your portable tank. after you try running it with the cap removed.
 

UncleWillie

Captain
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
3,995
Re: Main gas tank developing vacuum.

+1
When it dies, open the gas cap for a second. You are now vented for sure!

The fuel feed pickup may be blocked.
Is the Anti-siphon valve still attached to the pickup? Does it open?

I checked the vent line to the main tank and it is not clogged, I can blow into it and it will blow back at me.
Just to be complete and test the obvious; If you blow into the vent with the Gas Cap Open, it should NOT blow back at you.
Are you pressurizing what you think you are?

Another thought; Consider the Fuel Pump;
The portable tanks are on deck, The main tank is much lower under the flooring.
The pump may not have enough guts to pull uphill through the the normal restriction of the Anti-Siphon Valve.
The portable tanks do not have this valve.
 

2stroke1971

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
209
Re: Main gas tank developing vacuum.

Thanks everyone....I can pull the pickup pretty easily, Ive had it out a few times, but I never saw a valve, I will check it out. Whatever made it hard to drain with the outboard connector on it is also making it hard to draw from with the fuel pump. I (think) those outboard connectors will flow both ways when connected....later this evening I did put a regular barb on the main tank. I am going out Friday evening again so I will try some of the other suggestions before hand and I will let you all know.

One thing I also wondered about, with a mechanical fuel pump, its always pumping...what happens to the fuel pressure it makes when the carb is not admitting gas?
 

UncleWillie

Captain
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
3,995
Re: Main gas tank developing vacuum.

... I never saw a valve, I will check it out. ...What happens to the fuel pressure it makes when the carb is not admitting gas?

The Anti-Siphon Valve is an internal part of the fitting. It is essentially invisible to the layman.

With no fuel flow, the fuel pump diaphragm just gets pulled out and stays out.
No fuel flows, the pump stays full, the Cam misses the arm, the fuel line just remains pressurized waiting for the carb float valve to open.
 

2stroke1971

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
209
Re: Main gas tank developing vacuum.

Well...
No anti siphon valve. I pulled the pickup. I used a long T handle allen as a dipstick and I think the pickup is about 1 inch too short. It was just skimming the gas surface, with 5 gallons in what is probably a 30 gallon unit.
Vent is clear, with the pickup removed I could blow easily into the vent line with no back pressure. I think I was just sucking mostly air.
Im going to make it longer or buy a new one and try again.
Thanks everyone.
 

UncleWillie

Captain
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
3,995
Re: Main gas tank developing vacuum.

Crank the Bow Up!

Tank pickups are designed to leave about an inch of gas in the tank while underway. (Bow UP)
There should be less than 2 gallons unusable. Not 5!
If you suck fuel from the very bottom, you will puck up a lot of debris.
Yours sounds normal. If you are doing this on the trailer, remember, Bow UP!

Built in Tanks are required by law to have Anti-siphon valves installed by the manufacturer.
If you you do not have one, someone removed it. :confused:
 
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